Episode 60 - Crafting Custom Concrete: Techniques, Tips, and Trends with Dian Mullis
Episode #60 | Dian Mullis | Crafting Custom Concrete
In this engaging episode of The Curious Builder, host Mark Williams chats with Dian Mullis, a true maverick in the world of concrete countertops. Dian shares her fascinating journey from engineering to pioneering innovative concrete designs, discussing everything from the hands-on creative process to the challenges of industry collaborations and her unique approach to personalizing projects. The talk about the technicalities and artistic flair of working with concrete, while also exploring Diane’s personal interests and future plans for her business, making it a must-listen for anyone intrigued by craftsmanship and entrepreneurship in homebuilding.
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About Dian Mullis
Dian Mullis is the owner and founder of Pro Concrete Countertops in Albertville. As a former Director of Engineering with her Mechanical Engineering and Applied Mathematics degree, she knows the value of innovation. Dian holds 5 patents and has a patent pending for the unique process of using a digital template to become a partner with stone fabricators, offering artisan concrete products that can be made with no waste, no remnants and no size restrictions. Utilizing technology to aid in the design process, Dian has created an industry first custom software that allows the user to select from an infinite choice of color patterns. Pro Concrete pushes the boundaries of what concrete can be with artistic and bold 3 dimensional designs using pigmented concrete and technology. The Pro Concrete team creates concrete countertops, fireplace surrounds, bathroom vanities, sinks, furniture, stair treads, planters, art, bathtubs and much more.
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Mark D. Williams
Welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host today I'm joined by Dian Mullis with pro concrete countertops. Welcome, Dian.
Unknown Speaker 0:07
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Mark D. Williams<br> 0:08
You came in hot on your, your motorcycle. I remember because the first time I met you actually the only time I've ever met you, you've always been riding your cycle even on the shoulder cedars in mid our shoulder seasons of Minnesota. So tell us a little bit about your motorcycle riding. I really have a passion for it.
Speaker 1 0:25
I've had a motorcycle for a very long time I had to dirt bikes when I was like, five I think my grandparents bought us dirt bikes. And yeah, so I have two kids. When my kids were like, like in carseat age, right? I lived in like a suburb, and I'm driving a minivan. I got two kids. I'm listening to like Kid music. And I was like, I need a motorcycle again. Like this is not working. Most
Mark D. Williams<br> 0:57
people do the opposite they have kids are like oh man, usually it's the husband I have to sell my motorcycle which was happened to me once I got married. I sold my motorcycle. You had the exact opposite. That's amazing. Yes,
Speaker 1 1:07
cuz it used to have to get back to yourself. So yeah,
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:12
I agree. What do you what do you write?
Speaker 1 1:14
I have it's a ninja h2. It is a supercharged 1000 Oh my. It has absolutely ruined me for motorcycles like you cannot get a faster bike. It's I love it. Love Love. Love it.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:28
Have you ever laid it down? Um,
Unknown Speaker 1:30
cuz I'm clumsy. Yes.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:33
Okay. While writing are just like no well sitting
Speaker 1 1:36
on it. Yeah, yeah, I dropped my gloves and went to grab them and just got a little bit too far over just enough for me to go.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:45
I did it's funny because they are and I can't I'm not gonna pretend to be an amazing cyclist or cyclist I am but motorcycle or is i i tip mine over to a stop sign. That classic thing, right? I had 100 Buhl for touring. And I was at a house in St. Louis Park at the post office. I hate writing in the city, especially when first starting I think a couple months into it. I pull up. I just got a little top up. And I just went, Oh, I just started to go and I couldn't grab it. I just looked like a total idiot. Okay, but I would rather do that than you know, wiping out on a on ramp on some Sanders. Oh, yeah. It's only a matter of time before you lay it down. And anyway, my wife, my wife is the one she works in the medical field. So she's like, it's time for that to go. Yeah, anyway. Well, thanks for coming. We first you reached out to me maybe a year ago. And you expressed interest in coming on the podcast. And then I had recommended I think we were kind of full at the time, you know, come to one of our live events. I think at this point you've been, you've been to at least two maybe three of our live events to two. So you've been to Jackson's as well as Lelouch the one in the fall? Yes. So thank you very much for coming on. I appreciate it. Tell us a little bit about pro concrete countertops. And let's talk a little bit about your history to ownership. It will maybe we'll start there. And I have a ton of questions as I was looking at your website, which by the way, is probably one of the more beautiful websites that I've seen. It's an I really like good websites, maybe we'll start there. How long ago have you refreshed or rebranded? Because it looks really crisp. So
Speaker 1 3:14
creative endeavor. Greta. She's also in the wink board. She made my website very recently, last November, October, I think we went live. Okay, yes, she reset,
Mark D. Williams<br> 3:25
because I can tell him, Okay, this is this is this is a hot design. I like it,
Speaker 1 3:29
like I gave her there's so much information and to organize all of it. So that it makes sense, is she does an amazing job. I recommend her very highly. So I'm actually I'm really glad you looked at the website, because I do know, you do usually look at you know, whoever's coming on, you know, you talk about the website. So I was hoping that you would
Mark D. Williams<br> 3:47
well, it was funny, because while I've met you a number of times in person, I can't say we've had like long, deep dialogues, which is half the reason I liked the podcast, so they actually get to know people on a much deeper level. But as I was doing some research, like I do before every episode, like your website was great. And it really highlights your products, which we'll get to spend most of time talking about the business operations, but I was trying to find I was like to know a little bit about the person, right? And like, it's a very, like, lit I was like, very zero, like, like, you have like waited enough that you know, did the NSA wipe out her background and she like a deep cover spy from Australia. And it was like, because you kind of like Australia, and it was like, man, we're the world. I can't find anything out about you. So I'm very intrigued to like, I don't know much about your personal life because it's not on the website. It's not really much on LinkedIn. And so those are usually my two, you know, to go to places to kind of dig in. So
Speaker 1 4:34
so it's very interesting. So that so I am working with Morgan from the online. Yeah. I had like our powwow session. I'm not really sure what you call it, but they are helping me with marketing. That was one of their things too. You don't have anything that was like you need to put something about you. And Greta and David from creative endeavor when they were working on my website. They're like, You need to have an about and I was like no, no Oh, I don't want anything about me, I want my products to speak for themselves. I don't like I understand, you know, like, even this podcast is about the story and things like that. But when I go to buy something, I want to buy it because it's something good. It's, you know, something that I want. I don't have a, I don't usually buy for the story. And so I'm different probably like that, but I just don't. So I, I'm, you know, Morgan's, probably convincing me maybe I do need an about on my website. And I've just been trying to, like balance that. And in my mind, like, Should I do it or not? And I Yeah, so I mean,
Mark D. Williams<br> 5:38
I think feel like we live in a really interesting age, in the sense that you can, I mean, I love like, I don't, I would say whatever you do, just be authentic to yourself. Like, if that's your value proposition, stay with it with a little bit of seasoning, right? You know, listen to Morgan and the neon lion to no other brother, but like, you know, you're gonna want a little personal but to your point, like when you're buying countertops, you know, whether it's Diane or somebody else, like you really want just bomber countertops that are sweet design. I totally understand that. It's funny, though, because people really resonate with a story. And people really, really resonate with a relationship. But everyone has a different value proposition. And maybe it'd be interesting to I'm not smart enough to know the answer to this, but I think different industries in different services and different products, it probably would be some are more of a transaction in some would probably be more of a relationship and not that they each industry can't be both to their level. But and I can only comment on the building world because that's kind of the one I'm in I mean, you know, it's someone said this great line the other day when they were being interviewed to be a remodeler. They said that, interviewing a remodeler is like interviewing someone, you want to be a roommate for a year and a half, like a roommate, right? Yeah. And so I wonder if that's why we don't see so many personas and people, especially on builder platforms, because we realized that we still have to build gorgeous homes. So we do want to highlight that. And maybe for myself, maybe I've gone overboard, and I've done too much highlighting of myself, that's something for me to self reflect on at a later date and a different podcast. But I just it's just interesting to watch how people market because I know some builders that do nothing but show their homes, they want nothing to do with themselves. Anyway, so just hearing you talk about it, I sort of can resonate with what you're saying.
Speaker 1 7:20
I think it also like comes from my corporate background a little bit. Because when you're in a corporate setting, you have to be I don't want to say careful about things, but you kind of do. So when I was a director of engineering, for example, I, I worked well with the CEO because he was my boss, and but we got purchased by a really big, more corporate company. And, you know, I had told them I want to be CEO when my boss retires. Like that was what I wanted to do. And so then they found out like, I ride motorcycles, I shoot guns, things like that. They even actually told me, Well, you know, you got a speeding ticket the other day, you know, maybe you should get rid of your motorcycles and knowing like, the way I am, what I did was I went out and bought another motorcycle and I was like, Look at my new motorcycle. So needless to say, I didn't become CEO either.
Mark D. Williams<br> 8:16
It's really the problem becomes when you're riding motorcycles and shooting guns at the same time, that intersection becomes kind of a dangerous PR stunt unless you're working for Evil Knievel enterprises. Right. So that's
Speaker 1 8:27
why I'm a little more careful about kind of like my background, because and anytime, like, I mean, I had 21 people that work for me, you know, when I was a director, so I always try to keep like my personal life out of it as well. Like, I didn't ever go out to lunch with, you know, certain people, I didn't go to lunch with anyone that worked with me, unless we were in a group setting, you know, as a group, you know, everything was very, like I had a very, you know, drawn line. So I think that also makes a difference for me on how how much is on my website about me, you know, so it's
Mark D. Williams<br> 8:58
interesting. And it makes total sense when you give up that background like that. Walk us through. So you're a director of engineering. Let's go back, when at what point and how long were you that before you decided you wanted to? Because you didn't start pro concrete? You bought it as a business? No, I started well, you started as well. So how did why concrete? How did you get what were you doing at scale for this? You know, as your director of engineering, walk us through a little bit of that, and then let's walk through how and when the process of starting pro concrete how it became
Speaker 1 9:27
Sure. So I have two kids. I have two girls. My oldest daughter is in a wheelchair. So and my first husband was a framer. He's the one who convinced me. Let's build our own house. So we built our own house, we framed it we general everything. I did more of the general thing than he did. And then we split up. I have two girls like I said, and once I knew our oldest daughter was in a wheelchair, then it was like Okay, I like to design everything around her because honestly accessibility unless you Live with it, you don't really know what the needs are. So I built my second house super accessible, built my third house. And that's the one that I live in now. So I did my own concrete countertops in that house. So I just, I was like, I really love the trays. I love working with my hands. I don't want to be a builder. I just it just wasn't choice.
Mark D. Williams<br> 10:23
Three homes, you're like, wait, I know enough to know, don't be a builder.
Speaker 1 10:26
I just Yeah, I just didn't want to be a builder. Yeah, especially on my third house. So my third house like this one now was just when the building industry was starting to go back up. So it was like 2014. And it was really hard to find any contractors at that time, especially ones who wanted to work for a homeowner who was generally in their house, you know, it's always
Mark D. Williams<br> 10:45
a red flag, maybe they're gonna get the price that you don't want to pay, or you're just like, does this I really want this guy in my home?
Speaker 1 10:52
Right, you know, so that was a little tough. Um, so yeah, I did my own concrete countertops in my house. And I just knew, like, I knew about glass fiber reinforced concrete, but I didn't have the mix. So I went to a class in 2019, the concrete countertop Institute class, but actually before that, so I was working as a director, I'm like, I love concrete. Maybe eventually, someday I'll do this as a business. So that was like, my, when I get, you know, money, when I get enough money to like, start my own business. That's what I'll do. But it was like, five, six years, you know, like, how long was your career before? What company what it was? Automated packaging. That's what we did. Okay. Yeah. So and I loved what I did. Like, I traveled all over, I traveled to like Europe, constantly busy, and it was just like, I loved it. So then, yeah, I did the I was like, okay, my, my main goal was basically, I'm going to make concrete slabs, and I'm gonna sell them to like stone fabricators. That was my like vision, so to speak. And so then when I lost my job, I told him, I wanted to be CEO and all that. Yeah, so they live in in my position, they actually packed up and moved both the locations like,
Mark D. Williams<br> 12:07
wow, intended on that one. They
Speaker 1 12:10
were out of here. Later the equity. So um, yes. So let's see. And then so I didn't have a job. And I was like, this is a perfect time for me to take the concrete countertop ins to class. So that was 2019. I took the class. I really, I don't want to say luck. And luck is not a thing because I believe in God's God's sovereign. So anyway, so the morning of the class, I'm like, praying about I'm like, What should I do with my life because I was the breadwinner, you know, of the family. And I was like, Okay, please, John, God, just give me a sign. Give me a sign of what I'm supposed to do. And like I said, you know, my plan was, I'm gonna have slab stone fabric hitters are gonna cut them. I literally, I walked out of my hotel room and tripped over a piece of concrete. That was like, this big. I haven't in my office, I was gonna bring in I forgot to
Mark D. Williams<br> 13:02
send me a picture of it.
Speaker 1 13:03
I'll post about it. Okay, well, so I tripped over this piece of concrete. I pick it up and I look at it. And it's like an inch thick. And it's literally a cut piece of glass fiber reinforced concrete. So that was like, That's my son. Like, literally, that's your side. So I picked it on like, Okay, this is great. The class that I took, buddy Rhodes, like he that was the first time he went to a concrete countertop Institute class, like as a guest, basically. So buddy Rhodes is basically like the grandfather, we call him like the grandfather of glass fiber reinforced concrete. And I was so stoked to meet him. Because, you know, I knew about him and everything. Yeah, it was just amazing. So solder is he wears Oh, he's in like California. So he used to be a potter. He was a potter, and he wanted to like make bigger things. And he couldn't find the right medium and clay wasn't enough for him. And he basically like invented glass fiber reinforced concrete, it was just like, great.
Mark D. Williams<br> 14:03
What makes odd just because I don't know anything about why you say glass reinforced concrete, what is why the word glasses keeps coming up to me, like why is that important?
Speaker 1 14:11
So the difference between like traditional sidewalk concrete, and glass fiber reinforced concrete is well for two things. So like sidewalk concrete, things like that you want compressive strength. So that's why you know, people say, Oh, I have 5000 psi concrete, or I have 10,000 psi, because that's how much they're basically like squishing it down. Because that's what you care about in those applications. For applications like countertops and things like that you care about flexural strength. So traditional sidewalk concrete has a lot of accurate or big rocks, and we're typically glass fiber reinforced concrete to get it strength and to get flexural strength is glass fibers. So like the glass fibers create all kinds of little bridges in it. And that's what gives it its flexural strength.
Mark D. Williams<br> 14:55
Okay, interesting, okay, that I knew there was a reason that kind of made sense that it was Some sort of tie it together. One of the questions I'll have a little bit later when we get into products is just describing some of the differences between the concrete. But anyway, back to buddy rose, so buddy roses out this class and was he teaching it or you said he was attending,
Speaker 1 15:12
he taught part of the class. So I actually ended up with like a box that he taught. And he teaches what we call press concrete, because that was like, basically by the roads technique. And it's a very unique look, you basically you kind of like, take a whole bunch of little balls of concrete, and you press it all next to each other. And it creates voids in the concrete that you can fill in later with more concrete. So it gives a very unique, textural
Mark D. Williams<br> 15:37
look. Interesting. I mean, one of the things that I'm blown away, and I don't know how not to go there right now is like when I was looking my assumption of concrete countertops, and as a builder of 20 years, you think I would know better, but I honestly don't have a lot of experience with it other than buying a few, you know, from Pottery Barn or Restoration Hardware, you know, 1520 years ago, which was, you know, it's great. I think we had one in our last house, and it looked beautiful. But looking on your website, which again, is gorgeous. Well done. Greta, but it was, I mean, the veining in the I would have thought it was quartz. I mean, I was just blown away, I had no idea that you could do that kind of designs out of concrete. Is my is my perception pretty common? Or am I just completely out of touch on on this kind of thing.
Speaker 1 16:21
So the thing with that is I'm taking the concrete countertop Institute, like, I know, concrete artisans everywhere, like in Europe, Japan, like all across the US Boston, you know, everywhere I get to talk to all the alumni members, and even some people who are an alumni, because we just have that bond because and we're not competitors. It's like, you know, whatever. So I see all of their stuff. And we follow each other on Instagram. But honestly, there's only one other concrete artisan that I know of that does the same veining technique that I do in the world, or in Minnesota, ever that I've ever seen in the world? Really? Yes. Wow. And so like, I came up with my technique on my own, after honestly, like five or six months of playing and playing and getting frustrated and trying this and trying that and trying this. And finally I figured out like this looks awesome. And then like months later, I saw someone else's like Instagram page. And I'm like, that's the same technique. So I was like, I sent him a message. And I'm like, hey, you know, hey, like chit chat. And I asked her, I was like, What is your technique? Just I was like, because I do the same thing. I just want to see are you doing it the same way as I am. And so we were doing the exact same way developed it completely separately on our own. And I've been asked by some of the guys that have been doing concrete countertops and stuff for like, 25 years, how do you do that? And I'm like, you know, I spent six months doing that I'm not really just going to tell you how to do.
Mark D. Williams<br> 17:47
Is that a proprietary or a trademark couple thing that you could do? So you can license it and sell it? And like I would say,
Speaker 1 17:57
maybe? I'm not really sure. I mean, I do like I have a patent pending on a different, like, a process, so to speak. But I would probably say no, it's more like just a trade secret. I say, you know, okay, yeah,
Mark D. Williams<br> 18:13
yeah, I mean, trade secret, things like that. You could patent that.
Speaker 1 18:19
That's it thing with processes processes are getting harder to patent as well. Yeah, like my
Mark D. Williams<br> 18:25
thing to be fair about Pat. So whatever you say, I'll take as possible in this case, because I'm guessing you looked into it?
Speaker 1 18:30
Yeah, I absolutely did. Yeah. So because how much of it is
Mark D. Williams<br> 18:34
art? You know, I think of like, you know, you can't you could patent like, Hey, I'm putting oil on a canvas or like, you know, that's artistic ability. For instance, how this process? Are you the only one that can do this? Or are there other people in your company that can do this?
Speaker 1 18:49
I'm the lowest on it. Okay, yeah. Out of curiosity, how big is your company? It's just myself and I have like two part time workers and that's it. Okay, well, that would explain that
Mark D. Williams<br> 18:58
part of it was a scale thing. Because I'm like, you know, do you you know, and how do you oversee this as kind of like the master chef of like, how do you describe yourself? Describe yourself? Like what would be you describe yourself? If you were to say to somebody, like, especially the artistry side of it, how do you describe yourself?
Speaker 1 19:15
I feel like I'm an engineer before I'm an artist, okay. I wouldn't call myself an artist because an artist to me comes up. Like, they have this idea in their head and they make it happen even though I do do that, but more in an artsy way. Like, I can look at something I can look at like two things and kind of mash them together and say, Okay, this is the thing. Or I can recreate things pretty easily like we did this. This really, really artistic kitchen and she wanted a backsplash that was textural. She wanted a backsplash that had birch trees in it. And
Mark D. Williams<br> 19:53
like literal birch trees, like pieces of a birch tree,
Speaker 1 19:56
no concrete that look like okay, or that was birch. Trees. Yeah. And we talked a lot about okay what like if this is birch trees what do we want the top to be like his the backsplash was textural. And you don't want obviously you don't want a kitchen countertop that's textural. So we came up with okay, if this is, you know, the sun and the birch trees are here, like let's make you know the flat top be basically the floor of the forest. So that's what it looks like is the floor of the first and it does have some like no texture at all completely smooth. It does have like fallen birch trees in it,
Mark D. Williams<br> 20:32
if you will. Wow. So is this like a screen printing? You're
Unknown Speaker 20:35
putting on this like, no, like I did it all by hand?
Mark D. Williams<br> 20:38
Oh my word. I want to see that. Okay, I'm gonna have to go back because I clearly didn't spend enough time looking at the pictures. I was too busy trying to find information about you that didn't exist. And I was like, No, I want to go back and do a second look. That's
Unknown Speaker 20:49
amazing. It's on my Instagram.
Mark D. Williams<br> 20:50
I love how you describe yourself not as an artist because what you're describing is like, to me pure art.
Speaker 1 20:55
But they gave me like, they gave me like eight pictures and said, Can you make something like this?
Mark D. Williams<br> 21:00
What you saw is are you etching it? Is it like what is it? Maybe it's a trade secret. But how does it get onto concrete? I'm so confused is
Speaker 1 21:07
the concrete. So like concrete can be pigmented. So like, Okay, if I have bright red concrete or bright blue, it actually starts as white then when you put dry pigments in it to make and it's actually buddy Rhodes pigments that we put it oh my
Mark D. Williams<br> 21:19
word Yeah, circle. When you when you so going back a little bit, we got lost a little better. I did, because I'm so curious about where this is going. But when you start so you got fired, you started your job walk us through those early years that sort of a startup because I love like a lot of entrepreneurs, you're either forced into it, or you're led there. In this case, you're sort of both because you're like, hey, what I have a lot of money. I'm gonna start this. And now like, I don't know, if you had a lot of money, but you're like, Well, I don't have a job. So I guess I'm starting it. What were those early years? Like, were you you had already discovered how to do it on your own home? Is that accurate? And did you go find a client? Like, how did you? Who are your first clients walk us through those early years? Because it's not actually been that long? It's only been five years? Yes, exactly. Yeah. Walk us through the early years of sales and how you really found a market for this.
Speaker 1 22:04
Yeah, so like the first year, it was more like, Oh, I'm gonna do a little bit and do a little bit, you know, and I think I found a builder and I was like, hey, I'll give you a free vanity. If you put my vanity in your he had like a parade home. I honestly don't even remember who that pulls her. And didn't really get anything from it. I created a website, you know, and I actually I was working on like, when I when I was off from work, he actually bought a commercial building and flipped it. So I like I was remodeling, I was just like, I have to stay busy. So let's see. So I was just making some random stuff, had my website, I was doing it kind of on the side, I actually went back to work for a different company as their director of engineering. So I was working full time again. And then I was just doing concrete on the side. Basically, people would just find me for my website. And let's see in it'd be late 2020. So I was doing it in my garage, I didn't have a shop. But I have a three car garage and I like took a you know, I just like took over my garage. In late 2020 I had a call from a contractor who was L Kramer builders. And he said Hey, can I send you you know, some plans? Can you give me a bit? I'll make sure. He says Rudolph's house on the plans. And I'm like, okay, like my my oldest daughter since she's handicap I have met Kyle Rudolph from like, he does a lot of philanthropy and things like that. So I knew who he was. And I'm like, this house is huge. Like, is this Kyle Rudolph house? And was like, Oh, I don't know. I'm not gonna ask because I was like, I don't want act weird about it. Right. So I sent them the bid. And then like a week
Mark D. Williams<br> 23:45
later, they specifying did their did they design? It was already specified as concrete. Okay. Yeah. But I mean, was it like printed or just straight concrete?
Speaker 1 23:53
Um, honestly, I didn't even know the color. I don't think when I bid it, okay. Yeah. And it was Henry in tears, who I also work with now too. And so I got to meet them from this. So yeah, I made car Rudolph's countertops out of my garage. And I had, like, 10 of my friends helped me install it. And so it was like a really big bar top that had like a ledge on it. And then they're really big island and then two tops that were in front of like his golf simulator. So the island was like, so massive. I was like, I don't even know how to flip this. You know, and, honestly, a lot of not just like, you have to understand the product in the material. You have to understand, like rigging and how do you flip things and you know, how do you move things because we're big and heavy. And what why
Mark D. Williams<br> 24:42
do you need to flip it at all? What do you just seal it or what?
Speaker 1 24:45
So like, typically, I don't want to say always because they do cast some stuffs upside down or right side up. So typically, you cast it upside down so that you have a nice flat, smooth surface. So when you cast it upside down, like you have to wet grind the back smooth And then you flip it over and whack right in the top usually,
Mark D. Williams<br> 25:02
because you're letting gravity fill in all the voids of whatever mold you're creating, or Well, I don't know enough about how you would actually I don't even so you're building this in your shop and then transporting it to the house. I'm just curious like, this is creating a mold that this goes in a template that so is gravity, when it goes upside down, is the whole point is that the gravity would help smooth out all the edges, or I don't understand the point of when you said it's smooth on one side, and then you have to smooth it again. So
Speaker 1 25:30
like, Well, yeah, I mean, you don't, some people do what we call cream finish. So like, when it is cast upside down, you could just flip it over. And that could be your finish. Okay. But that's what we call cream finish. The the issue with cream finish is that it's fairly scratchable, so to speak. So usually we flip it over and then hold it to like 200 grid, or in the case of like the press concrete like the buddy roads concrete, like all of those voids will be there. And then when you flip it over, you're going to fill it in with more concrete than wet grind it down again. So there's a lot of process I really want
Mark D. Williams<br> 26:03
to come watch this Do you have any videos on YouTube?
Speaker 1 26:09
I am totally an Instagramer everything on Instagram like I do usually like I do a lot of behind the scenes and talking and stuff like that. To
Mark D. Williams<br> 26:18
spend more attention I already follow you but now I'm gonna have to zero and I can't wait to see how that I don't I also don't consider myself an artists although I think you are one where I definitely don't think I am and I just really love watching it. I have a buddy of mine, Drew Besian he does a lot of really beautiful art, acrylic and epoxy and anytime I see anything art, it's like I send it to my artist friends like Surely they must love this. Now you're gonna be on my Instagram spam list every time I find some crazy, you know, art piece. I love watching it happen. It's quite beautiful. Okay, so you're How did you figure out this rigging? 10 people. First of all, how did you get 10 people to like, this is this is not like you're moving into your house and like, Hey, here's pizza and beers, because I'm pretty sure you don't want to do pizza and beer installs with your concrete countertop. So
Speaker 1 27:03
I think it's kind of funny because well, okay, so we had to flip the island. So I had my neighbor who had a bobcat come over and flip it for me because I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna flip this thing. So he came over booked it. Since I ride motorcycles. I have a lot of motorcycle friends and usually they're younger. Right? So and I have a friend who owns a junk removal business and knew him from riding motorcycles. So I was like, hey, I need somehow so my motorcycle friends came up
Mark D. Williams<br> 27:30
to me I was this was Henry interiors and like I'll Kramer on the jobsite and like incomes like you know, you know, I don't know what that the Hells Angels but like motorcycle club coming in, go work on kind of like, wow, literally, there's a flatbed truck or there's a truck in here somewhere that you have to drive to get this stuff here. So
Speaker 1 27:49
my friend who has the junk removal business, he he had like a box truck. So the first piece we did was the back bar piece and it was like 12 feet long. I think it was like two inches thick. And then it also went up like another four to six inches. You know the back ledge. huge, heavy piece. And there was only I think four. I think there's only four of us that time. So there's there's this Bobcat that was there at the job site when we get there. And we're like, we tried to get it out and we're like, we don't know what we're doing. Really, you know. And so my friend Eddie it's at he's junk removal. He's like maybe the keys are in the bobcat. He gets in the bobcat keys are in it. He's like, we're gonna make this work, right. And honestly, we're like borrowing who knows bobcat? Maybe it's your buck. I'm like, I don't even know whose Bobcat this will
Mark D. Williams<br> 28:39
remodel. Years later out next to Kyle's house. Are you Yeah, no, we already Oh, you all do that. But anyway, so I know exactly where you are. So anyway, that's kind of funny.
Speaker 1 28:49
So we're like basically stealing his bobcat and cow Rudolph comes out, like on his balcony with like a couple of his friends. And I'm like, Oh, no. Really? Hi. Hey,
Mark D. Williams<br> 29:04
how can I help you really strong?
Speaker 1 29:07
Yeah, I was like, Okay, hopefully he just doesn't know. It's our Bob like, not our bobcat, whatever. So yeah, we get that in. And then we have the Big Island piece. And so like, I think it rained the day before and we had to like back up my friend's truck and trailer. Like, we could only get it halfway down. Because it's like a walkout. And so we all had to like walk and we are like walking through the mud, like rock sticking to our boots, you know, and we laid all the like Hardy board or whatever it's called down you know, but still, it was just like a mess, a mud hole. And we had 10 people carrying this island we had to take two breaks because it was like would
Mark D. Williams<br> 29:45
you restaurant Did you break some sawhorses or something to restaurants?
Speaker 1 29:47
Like foam and stuff? Yeah. Yeah.
Mark D. Williams<br> 29:50
Sounds any idea how heavier was it
Speaker 1 29:53
that that one I did like full like normally when I do two inch concrete I foam core it. That one I did I'm pretty sure I did full so it was probably. He's like 700 pounds. Okay.
Mark D. Williams<br> 30:06
Yeah. I like the bobcat idea.
Speaker 1 30:11
Like that's almost limit for a bobcat to. So because I know we had, we made a 900 pound double waterfall single piece island that was craned in and I was like, Okay, we're not carrying that in that has to be craned in so.
Mark D. Williams<br> 30:26
Yeah. Wow. So you got anyway, you got you got it installed? And was any I mean, any issues when you got it installed or went pretty smoothly?
Speaker 1 30:35
No, everything went really smooth. Um, we did have to remake one piece, because it didn't have quite the overhang, right? They had like some, like, reclaim bar mode or something. And I don't remember if they didn't have it on at the time or something, but it's just like, no big deal. Yeah, yeah. Wow,
Mark D. Williams<br> 30:53
amazing how? Right now, it seems like most of your work has been people reaching out you directly. So in the beginning, it was mostly consumers. So obviously, business consumer. Now what percentage of your business is directly to, you know, let's say interior designers, architects or builders. So let's call it commercial or business grade versus directly to consumers, what would be your rough split.
Speaker 1 31:18
So usually, when concrete businesses start out, they are more homeowners, then like designers or builders and stuff like that, and then you start to flip more towards like interior designers and things like that. I say, I've definitely flip that. So I'm probably like 70, or 80%, interior designers and builders, you know, so b2b, and then probably, you know, 20 30% homeowners now, but I also now do have stone distributors. So I have for right now about to be five stone distributors, that basically I'm the manufacturer and they do the templating and install of my product. Oh,
Mark D. Williams<br> 31:59
that's pretty nice. So you can just make it they'll just give you an order. And you'll, I mean, it's no different than, you know, having a slab right. So you've got a manufacturing slab, you know, the fabricator? I guess in this case, you kind of get a cut of both because you get to fit, you're making it. And then they're obviously marking it up. Are you the are you handling any of the financial transactions with that consumer? Are you running it all through XYZ? All
Speaker 1 32:21
through the distributors? Yeah. So I basically I have a, I do have a utility patent, a patent pending on my process of being able to use a digital template from a stone fabricator, turning it into a finished product, and then sending it back to them basically. So they're doing the templating send me the DSF, I'm creating the product with no way so we don't make slabs. We make everything to be specific for that size. And that consumer basically, I
Mark D. Williams<br> 32:50
mean, that one of the things that seems kind of appealing about your business, as I was kind of looking into it was, you know, obviously, you know, if it's natural stone, they're mining it out of, you know, stone quarry, they're cutting it, there's, you know, ways they're shipping it, there's all kinds of things that go into that, right. And then obviously, if it's courts that are manufacturing it or cooking it or you know, that whole recipe, but in your case, you're making it all out of product, I assume is that probably one of the biggest walk us through some of the differences is assume those are your three biggest competitors. I mean, those are the three courts, you know, natural stone and then concrete. Any idea what percentage of the market share would be? And we had for instance, we had Eric Tendler, from Cambria on and he was saying that roughly at least today, it wasn't like this one is 20 years ago, but today, quartz countertops is about 50% of the US market. I'm just curious what your thoughts are on what is the split then if that's true for natural stone and you know, specialty Do you consider a concrete countertops a specialty product or whatever? So, so what what what percentage of the market would be quite specialty,
Speaker 1 33:55
I would think is very small. Okay. Yeah. Because, you know, there's only I mean, there's we're such a niche market and then it also varies like from business to business, like concrete business, like, like I said, you know, my technique is specific to me. If you ask some other artists out there, you know, to make it they'd be like, don't
Mark D. Williams<br> 34:14
be careful you just use describe yourself as an artisan so
Unknown Speaker 34:16
so you, Xin is different than artists. craftsperson? Don't
Mark D. Williams<br> 34:22
worry, you're gonna be you're gonna be an artist by the time the show's over, don't you worry. I'll get you there. Oh, okay. So anyway, a very small percentage
Speaker 1 34:30
very, very small. And then even with concrete artisans, like we don't make just countertops you make fireplace surrounds you make wall panels, we make showers we make you know, shower panels, we make furniture, you know, so there's a wide variety of other things that we do make that's coming
Mark D. Williams<br> 34:43
back to me now because you're maybe you knew Morgan from before that because you're up in Monticello. And she's an Elk River. And you you didn't you do the fireplace around at her artisan home? Yes. Yep. Okay, that's when I remember you. You asking me to stop by and look at it. I was there for her, you know, kind of her grand opening event that she had. And I remember seeing you there. And I remember being like, wow, because that was like, I mean, that's got to be like a 2030 foot tall wall, you know, a huge 25 feet. 25 feet. It was beautiful. And you had your cool. I remember being impressed because at the time, I think I even came over and talked to you. Because I said, I didn't know you could even do that with concrete.
Speaker 1 35:19
I think what I saw you at a Housing First, I think a housing first event is when I first met you, okay. And you you quiz me, you're like, why should I pick concrete over, you know, something else? And I think I mentioned something about fireplace around because I was like, Well, you know, gave
Mark D. Williams<br> 35:35
you the saw me sell me now. There's a microphone here. Sell me, why should I do it? Okay, that sounds pretty cool. Let's do it. Well, that's it's funny, because yeah, I mean, the fireplace rounds, it seems like a pretty emerging. I mean, you know, anyway, but that's a whole nother thing. We'll stay on. Well, stay on concrete here. Yeah, what are you seeing? One of the questions that I had about concrete is, you know, concrete is porous, are you able to seal it and walk us through a little bit of the ceiling? Granted, natural stone is porous, too, right? I mean, people sometimes forget that. You know, when it stains, you know, that's the core of stone, right? You know, God made it with holes in it, you know, walk us through concrete, like, walk us through some of the pros and cons as people and even builders out there and designers that are listening to this episode, like, you know, they might reconsider, you know, what are some reasons to go to a specialty product, you know, like a concrete countertop.
Speaker 1 36:27
So like, because everything is made to order. And you can, I always say you can get exactly what you want, you can get exactly the color that you want the veining that you want, you know, the technique that you want, you can have, you could tell me, I want a vein going this way. And then I want the backsplash vein to go that way like exactly where you want it, I can do that. And then you can pick a color that you want. So like you're not picking from, you know, a premade set of slabs, like you can get exactly what you want. Okay, that's
Mark D. Williams<br> 36:56
a pretty good reason. Exactly. So and
Speaker 1 36:59
so as far as like concrete being pours it and sealer. So it really depends on the artisan and what type of sealer they use. Since I'm an engineer, I spent a lot of time paying attention doing a lot of testing. So about a year and a half ago, I spent, ya know, it probably took me about a month testing seven or eight different sealers, because there are a lot of different sealers out there. And it really depends on which jeweler you use and how good it is. So that's why I will always want to test my own products before I give them to someone else as well. So I use also, from the concrete countertop Institute, I use a sealer that's water based over solvent base, there is a there is a really good solvent based sealer out there. But the thing I don't like about solvent based is just the chemicals and the smell. And I'm really sensitive to bad smells, and I just didn't want solvent based. So I tested it for like 15 Different staining agents, you know, scratching heat and things like that. So, you know, I have like this monster spreadsheet because I'm also mathematicians, so like I went through everything and I gave everything like basically a waiting like, Okay, how much does it cost? Is it resealable? Is it you know, environmentally friendly? How scratchable is it how to do over all of these stains? How easy is it to strip it and reseal it? Can homeowners reseal this if they want you know, like I went through just just a huge list of different things to look at for each one of the sealers and still stuck with you know, what I've been always using which is omega foam concrete countertop Institute so, so it does seal it makes it um, basically it's a coating. So it's non porous basically after that, but then if you scratch the coating, if you you know, if you mess up the coating, then it can get into the concrete and then seep down into it because like you said concrete is porous. But there's other you know, there's like I said, there's a ton of different sealers out there, that's just the one that I use. Yep,
Mark D. Williams<br> 38:58
do it repeatedly. I mean, just is there ongoing maintenance with it. So
Speaker 1 39:01
that's the nice thing about a mega you don't have to reseal it unless you harm it in some way. So
Mark D. Williams<br> 39:05
it's self sealing or just takes care of it the one time it's kind of like a shell and it's done. Yes, exactly. It's basically a shell interesting on your website the one that I was thinking of is that white countertop with those cool blue streaks but when you poured the sink is that all one piece? Yes. Amazing because you now where you're mentioning where the line comes, you know kind of an odd angle or not odd angle but like I don't know 20 degree angle comes down the sink through the sink and up. I can see why a designer a homeowner, I mean, I don't know how you would you I don't know if you could do that with natural products.
Speaker 1 39:41
Yeah, you couldn't I don't think and honestly like natural products are glued together. If you see something that has like a three inch face, you know if you're using porcelain or something like that, it's glued together. And yeah, like, Do you want something?
Mark D. Williams<br> 39:58
The weight of it to I assume When you're building it, you know, the cabinet guide the substrates, you know, whether it's internal metal and iron. Is that something you're providing? Or that's something I assume the cabinet manufacturer is going to have to get pretty involved with? Because
Speaker 1 40:10
no, so glass fiber reinforced concrete is lighter than any other stone out there. Really? Yeah.
Mark D. Williams<br> 40:17
So that giant slab you had that was 700 pounds is was lighter than it would have benefited? Oh, yeah. Well, there you go. So they must love it.
Unknown Speaker 40:26
I mean, things are still heavy. But if
Mark D. Williams<br> 40:28
nothing else, you've made a sale. Because next time I do a home, I'm going to be trying to figure out a way to get this and especially a show home because I really want to, I want to really want to put this in this. It sounds really cool. Plus, now I want to go find out where some of your homes are, we can go see it in person, because yeah, really curious. Walk us through a little bit about so we talked, obviously a lot about the the product. Let's talk a little bit about the innovation. I mean, is there more things you want to talk about there? I mean, it sounds obviously you've spent a ton of time, but I am sort of fascinated by is how, you know, quote, playing with the product is really how it innovated and it seems like you, you know, regardless if you you know, you listen to people talk about their careers, their craft, their art form, a lot of it is founded in play. And, you know, having little kids you know, minor, probably younger than yours at this point. But like it is, it's so much of it is the playfulness. So I love the idea that a lot of your company started with you just playing with it. And it just kind of kept evolving. And I love the idea that there's only two people in the world that do it your way. And it's sort of funny that how often do you guys chat? Now?
Speaker 1 41:29
Um, we don't actually okay. Yeah. Just you know, sometimes, like, when you talk to different artisans, sometimes you're like, Oh, I when I did the tossed around. I talked to Jay from Oasis in Boston. I said, because he did you know, several toss rounds. I'm like, How do I get this up there? How do you do this? And J is he's so funny. He goes, it's death from above. That's what he told me. I was like, Death from above, like, What are you talking about? He's like, everything you do to try to get this up, there is sketchy. He's like, it doesn't matter what you do. It's sketchy. I'm like, well, you're so helpful. Right, so I'm sorry, I totally lost track of what you know,
Mark D. Williams<br> 42:11
I mean, you kind of did just a sense of play. I mean, it sounds like it's highly inventive. And, you know, I think a lot of the especially the specialty items in a home, you know, I think the the figured out factor is Uber high with you can clearly tell as you talk about this, which I certainly appreciate. You know, I think sometimes as we explained to our clients, you know, you know, I often say that, yes, we have a blueprint, we have specs, we are following this, but there is a lot of art in putting this together. And that's where you're hiring talented people, communication teams, all that stuff is super important. But, you know, a lot of it comes down to honestly, you know, a little bit of elbow grease and some fortitude and, you know, some pluck, because there's some things that just don't work and, you know, do people that are kind of willing to go the extra mile and honestly, my a big part of my job as a custom homebuilder, you know, is aligning myself with people that have similar values, knowing that, like, you know, I'm not an expert in countertops in any form. But one thing I'm intrigued about is like, Okay, well, you are, you know, hey, here's what we're doing how, you know, let's find ourselves a client and say, Hey, how can we make something together? Because the story in some ways it sells itself? It's a little bit like, you know, well, you were there when we had Jackson shorts, talking about Him who made lights. And one of the things like you can buy a lot of light fixtures from a lot of places. But you know, each one of those has been touched by hand. And each one of those lights has been, you know, formed. And there's something about it for me that is very organic. And maybe it's because I don't do it, I have such an appreciation and affinity for it. So now hearing you talk about concrete that way makes me feel like, Oh, this is something that was shaped by hand that, you know, was created for this home that that seems really unique, like it's, I'd be curious to know, like on a price point schedule, where where does concrete countertops fall in the hierarchy of, you know, let's say quartz and natural stone? I know there's a huge range here. So it's kind of a tough question, maybe, I'd
Speaker 1 44:02
say we're somewhere in the middle, we're higher than granite, could be usually less than high in quartz, sometimes more than high in court, but then it also depends on what product we're talking about. So if we're just talking about like, straight countertops, right, but if we're talking about like fireplace arounds or something like that, if you can't typically make comparable types of shapes out of stone, because you have to start with like this huge block, where we're just gonna make a mold and we can make it half inch thick, but it may look like it came out of a huge block. Right, you know, so depending on you know, the possibility
Mark D. Williams<br> 44:39
of form is really its biggest asset isn't true.
Unknown Speaker 44:42
Yes, absolutely. Because it's basically like liquid stone,
Mark D. Williams<br> 44:45
right? Yeah. How often do you get people that are buying it because I'm guessing it's you know, especially in this day and age that we live in are more and more people are becoming more eco conscious, and for sure they are from a branding and Business Association. I would imagine, you know, you're not afraid and shipping and mining and all these is that a huge, huge, huge selling point, especially with, you know, architects and designers that value those and their clients that let's say go to them and say, Hey, like, I'll just use, you know, we had sustainable night on. I don't know if you've ever worked with shatter Ryan, but you know, they have a lot of their clientele is looking for, you know, trying to get, let's say, pushing the envelope on a netzero home. And so they're looking at the VOCs and paint and the indoor air quality, or those types of builders and the clientele that they attract more interested in a product in an art form like yours, because it has a lower, you know, environmental impact. Is that a selling point? Or am I wrong? Oh, it's
Speaker 1 45:41
absolutely a selling point. I wouldn't say that. I wouldn't say that's my typical stellar selling point, though. Typically, my selling point is going to be color and shapes, you know, that we can make things that are that you can't find anywhere else, you know, exactly
Mark D. Williams<br> 45:58
how long so I come to you. And I say, you know, like, for instance, how long is your backlog? If I come to you and say, I want to? I mean, give me an eight by 10? I mean, that's a dump dimension five by 10. Island, and I want some crazy, whatever, how long? Like what was that process through? I'm gonna give you a picture, I'm gonna iterate it for you, you're gonna like how does the proof concept work? Like, are you giving me a digital proof? Like, how do you get clients to sign off on something like this. So
Speaker 1 46:26
usually, that was why I created the visualizer, we actually created, I think it was like 10 Different slabs of concrete, just so that we could take pictures of them and create the visualizer. And then we made all of these different colors so that we could create the visualizer. So typically, I tell them, go look at the visualizer pick something that you like for a color or pattern, and then download the JPEG send it to me. Once they do that, I send them and then they give me like dimensions where they're at, what are the logistics of the installation, stuff like that? Or I just send them to the distributor and say, Okay, you handle this, which the last the same questions and do the same things. But once they say, yep, your price is good, I'm going to sign your contract, here you go, then I make a sample of what they picked. Okay, unless I already have a sample, of course,
Mark D. Williams<br> 47:12
right? Is this where on your website, you have six patterns, 51 colors, endless possibilities. I
Speaker 1 47:17
mean, like, there's literally, like an infinite amount of colors. It was it was funny, because
Mark D. Williams<br> 47:21
especially because you said you're in the mouth, because they're like, well, pretty sure six times 51 is 306. But the whole point is obviously I get it like the application of it is endless. So there, it's
Speaker 1 47:29
actually not 306 or whatever you said, it's actually like a factor number.
Mark D. Williams<br> 47:35
Tell me, educate me more.
Unknown Speaker 47:36
It would literally
Mark D. Williams<br> 47:37
be like, because it's a power. Yes.
Speaker 1 47:38
Yeah. Gotcha. Yeah. It's like, lottery, you know, so many. Yeah. nomination? Yeah.
Mark D. Williams<br> 47:44
Oh, yeah, you're right. I didn't do that correctly. I was just trying to give you credit. No one is ever gonna accuse me of a math that I was the presenter, I was not the math Crusher. So I will definitely differ on that one. Let's talk a little bit more about from the from a business standpoint, do you plan to scale? Do you plan to grow? Do you feel like you're kind of in a, in a kind of a sweet spot? Like where do you see, you know, you've got to, you know, pretty innovative design process. You've got these pens, you got some really cool, not only tech going on and some of your patents and things like that. But where do you see the future? What does the next five years look like?
Speaker 1 48:20
So adding more distributors is a big one. I I was actually going to use your podcast mark to announce this. Amazon. Okay. I have my own store and Amazon. Oh, very cool. So I haven't listed any product yet. But by the time this goes live, I better have some products up my move. Like really? Because that took like two weeks to move my entire shot that through my whole thing off. My goal was to hit your podcast date. Feel to say okay, look at my Amazon store. But Amazon is a big one for me. Yeah,
Mark D. Williams<br> 48:54
that's amazing. Good for you. Congratulations. How will that so you'll have set patterns and set dimensions and people just order or is it to suit or like, how does that what does that portal look like?
Speaker 1 49:05
So it will be more standardized? I'm going to have basically, three fireplace surrounds, but they're kind of a mix and match design and five colors. And then I'm also working on some collabs with interior designers to work on vanities as well. baby tiger
Mark D. Williams<br> 49:23
is amazing. Have you have you worked at all with that, Katie, Kath? No. So that might be worth talking to you a little bit. Katie was on the podcast her and Jessie maybe a year ago and they had just launched their they did a vanity line online. So they've Yeah, and she might be a good person to network and talk with in terms of you know, what have they found successful? What didn't I know? It was a little slow in the beginning but then it really took off. You know what I think they had to think for them. Hey, we have all this capacity. You know, anytime our cabinet shop is sitting idle, let's make a couple more cabinets or vanities of set dimensions. And then let's have a catalog shop and sell And so they went through a whole branding suite and the whole they built it all out. But anyway, just putting you in touch plus another local Minnesotan, who's a fantastic business person as well, so might be a good resource. Well, that's really exciting. I'm excited about that. How in terms of because it's funny now I am. It's like the competition side of me. It's like, well, I want a custom. I wanna I want my own custom Marc Williams line of a countertop. Me wants to do a curious, actually, this is my idea. Could you make me a curious builder? Yep. With like that. countertop? Yeah, no way.
Unknown Speaker 50:35
Oh, yeah. We've done like, what
Mark D. Williams<br> 50:36
would that cost? Like? This is probably why you wanted to be yellow. Oh, yeah. I want to I want it to be this guy. Or maybe the logo. Yeah. How would that work?
Speaker 1 50:46
You just have to tell me dimensions and how thick and yeah.
Mark D. Williams<br> 50:51
Oh, yeah, we're definitely gonna do that. There. That's my first clap. See, there you go.
Speaker 1 50:55
We've done several logos we did. We're about to do one with Republic Services. You know, the trash company. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna make a couple of vanities. For them. We're making Rudy Go Bears logo. Like he's wants his sign. Yeah, that's actually sitting on my casting table right now.
Mark D. Williams<br> 51:11
Oh, that's so cool. Oh, yeah. I'm all over this. This
Speaker 1 51:14
is Willie McCoy's. We did there Willie's on the water? Yeah, I
Mark D. Williams<br> 51:18
saw that on your website. Yeah, that was really, really neat. Well, I think there's so many applications for the customer, especially for branding. Yes, that would be a really, have you thought about target marketing for, you know, kind of the branding as I'm still learning marketing. Right now, like, oh, wait a minute, I see some huge market potential on that. Yeah. What? How often are? Okay, so go back to the original question. So the scale obviously, you got Amazon? Are you gonna have to hire more people? Are you gonna teach more people your process? You is not tied to just you? Correct? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And what does that process look like? I
Speaker 1 51:53
meant so like, because we can make reusable molds. So it's gonna be basically me teaching someone. I'm not really that worried about it. Because since I've had other people work for me before. I feel like I'm a pretty good. And actually, some of the people that used to work for me would love to come and work for me if I can afford to hire them to. So that would be great. Yeah, yeah.
Mark D. Williams<br> 52:14
Oh, that's amazing. Are you in terms? I assume the overhead Do you have a shop now? Or where do you use it? Okay, so are you able to from just, you know, just running it from a cash flow standpoint, typically, you would take what a quarter or 50%? Down? Like, how are you taking in receipts? And then, you know, just being paid upon delivery and completion? Is that
Speaker 1 52:34
typically how it works? Absolutely. Yeah. 50% down, and then final on delivery.
Mark D. Williams<br> 52:38
I mean, it's the same as for the rest of the countertop world, too. I was just curious, was any any difference with
Speaker 1 52:43
you? I mean, working with some of the big bigger builders, though, usually you have to go with their terms, which is like 30 days after, right?
Mark D. Williams<br> 52:50
I mean, they'll put it on a draw, you know, it'll go through a bank or however they plan on on doing it. That's amazing.
Speaker 1 52:57
I should tell you like, so, being innovative, I am always playing and I have like this huge list of things I want to make all the time. I just came up with another one a couple days ago, and I'm like, Okay, I want to make it I want to make it now, you know, but sometimes you have to like, Okay, calm down, you have to finish your customer stuff. So you can try something else. And there's like a million like, you can infuse concrete with things too. So I was smells
Mark D. Williams<br> 53:26
like Scratch. Cool. So you can really drown people like actually let's not jump swim to the bottom of your pool, scratch it, you know that was
Speaker 1 53:37
it That's funny. There's like a there's a I don't know if it's a tick tock video or what it is. But there's like a spoof kind of goofy video about concrete. And it says it smells like butterscotch and I'm like, what I've decided to do is hilarious video. Anyway, but just different things you can do with concrete. Like yeah, you can infuse it with things as well. So anyway, being innovative, like so, I don't think I've I mean, not saying that someone else hasn't done this. But we made a five by 10 slab that was a quarter inch thick. And it's super flexible. I honestly haven't seen anyone else make concrete that big in that thin. But it's very application
Mark D. Williams<br> 54:22
was out for a fireplace
Speaker 1 54:24
surround her shower panels. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because like when you compare to like porcelain, porcelain is very brittle or can break you know, the shower panels that we just did, actually, the builder told me that they have done porcelain before he said he had like eight slabs break. And I'm like,
Mark D. Williams<br> 54:40
I remember talking. We had a client one time where we did I've only done it twice and you know, big eight, nine foot panels are huge, beautiful. And the homeowner told my fabricator he's she said, Well, you know, the labor must be so much cheaper because you're only putting in three. And oh, we gotta good laugh out of that, like, yeah, there's a lot less grout lines, but you have to factor in waste. Like, if this breaks, I have to go get another one, I'm not charging you more it broke. And so like, that's kind of all factored into, like, you know, sort of the waste factor. Plus, I think a lot of people, especially consumers think that, you know, even if your concrete is porous, or with this, you know, whatever, sealer, I forgot the name of it now, again, that you putting on it. The real waterproofing of a shower is actually the waterproofing behind it. So it doesn't matter if it's technically you know, waterproof, if you will, or water, you know, it pours anyway. And so I think the, we see so many more of these panels happening, as you know, as you say, I love the idea that the customization of it, I could see a huge application for like, a Lifetime Fitness or, you know, some commercial application for like, I'm just I love logos and branding. So I'm just thinking about, like, you know, just branding or like, you know, rather than like this super tacky, but it's like, you know, at the Super Bowl, like there'd be like, you know, branded porta potties or like whatever you could, you could like, you could do a fundraiser and like, you could brand the shower at like a public facility or something like that. So yeah, anyway,
Speaker 1 56:05
yeah, absolutely good. And then like, so we the shower that we just, we're not quite finished, we have to call it but it's mostly done. But the shower niche is all it's built in. So it's all like one piece.
Mark D. Williams<br> 56:17
How so I actually it's funny, I just saw something. It's funny how Instagram changes you get you get in. There's so many impressions that you get to see. So you get exposed to so many more things. How plaster? Can you do a can you do I assume you can do a plaster shower as well.
Speaker 1 56:32
So plaster. And it's I think that's interesting. So I have been asked because I do know how to do plaster and micro cement. So I always try to say micro sounds better. Micro cement looks like plaster in a way. But plaster you're probably thinking of like Tadelakt, or a waterproof plaster, but that typically needs to be resealed several times. The other difference between like concrete and plaster is like plaster or even micro cement. It's not structural or concrete is structural. And why would that matter? Well, in certain applications, it may not, but in some it does. Okay, I'm
Mark D. Williams<br> 57:05
thinking of a shower, because I'm like, Well, I
Speaker 1 57:06
don't think yeah, like furnish our it probably wouldn't record yet. But I understand your point, though. Yeah. But I would still I would still lean more towards micro cement, which is also an application like it's applied on but micro cement is typically it's stronger than plaster. And you shouldn't have to like reseal it and things like that. How
Mark D. Williams<br> 57:26
often do you get people and other artisans or other concrete companies that are either want to come work for you or see your product and are really impressed and be like we we want to come work with you? Do you get people that reach out to you and say, hey, we'd love to come join your team? Or is that
Speaker 1 57:41
that's funny I have, I had a couple that just came, they've literally just left today, they took three concrete countertop Institute classes, and they didn't feel comfortable enough to make their own vanity. So they asked me if they could come to my shop and basically make it in my shop. So they came I also have someone I guess he's from India, he's wants to visit me soon. And he's like, I want to come learn from you. I'm like, you can come visit me if you want. So he's coming the end of this month for like three days.
Mark D. Williams<br> 58:13
Interesting. Now, will you charge for that? No. There I mean, you have a very unique set of skills.
Speaker 1 58:21
I mean, so I always tell them, if you're gonna go to a shop, the only thing I won't teach you is my painting technique. Like I'll teach you anything else you want to know. Yeah, yeah. And I've visited other people's shops just to like, stop and say, Hey, how's it going? You know, so interesting.
Mark D. Williams<br> 58:34
I mean, just because you're very personable, and you have a great skill set. I mean, it might be and only if you like to do it, I only have found that recently, I really enjoy getting people together. I don't feel like I personally have a lot to educate people on but I love education. And I love the idea that just by getting people together, you know, you know, talking about what we're doing. In unison almost like a shadow. I have someone I'm going to start doing it a more regular basis, like local trade schools and things like that, where I'm reaching out to them and just say, hey, you know, come shadow me for the other young kids, right? So I don't expect them to pay. But I think there might be a profit model, you know, for you even where you could say, hey, you'll take on an apprentice. Like an old sword master from Kyoto, Japan here, you'd be trading your secrets.
Speaker 1 59:22
I don't know if I I don't know if I want to be a teacher. I don't really that's not my thing. Yeah. But the thing is, like, I'd love to invite people to come to my shop and make something with me. I'm constantly like, Hey, if you're an interior designer, come visit me because we can make a mirror together because I've been making these cute little like, I call them concrete blobs. Basically, we like make a concrete blob and we end up putting a mirror in it and it looks very organic and cool, you know, but it's super easy for me to just show someone how to do it. And then they kind of like if they're doing it then it's their own personal thing. I've had other people I've body castle from Casa She we did her charms hoping she's gonna have a remodeled home in the June artisan tour. And we did her fireplace around. But she was very specific on she wanted it to look more like polished concrete. So we put aggregates in it so that it could be polished and exposed in some areas. So I invited Bonnie, I'm like, Hey, this is yours if you're if you really want to come, and you can grind where you want to see the rocks. So she came, she like, got her gear on, and she like ground out, like she came like two or three times. And then I had another couple. I'm like, Hey, if you want to come to the shop, because they wanted a very specific blue, and I'm like, we'll just mix it until we get the right blue because it was just like in a small area. And I was like, we'll get the right blue. And then you guys can like put it where you want it. So they came to the shop and did that because I like people to have at least a good feel for like, if they want something specific. Let's do it together. And if you want like a personal touch to it, that you can say, we actually poured this or we actually helped I think that's like a big selling point. Oh, you know, huge.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:01:07
I mean, a story point. I mean, the one that you've kind of one up Jackson, you know, he doesn't he doesn't let other people you know, blow their own glass. Or in your case, yeah, that is amazing.
Speaker 1 1:01:18
I'm very open to because I love concrete. I think it's fun. I love I do love teaching people to a certain point, let's say, you know, I don't want to teach someone how to do like, start to finish a mold, because that takes a lot of time. But like, I'll have everything set up, and then we can do it together.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:01:34
Oh, man, I'm thinking like, I do like the teaching aspect. If I had your skill, something like, you know, you could you could have, like, you know, kids, you could have adults. I mean, there's so many applications where I think, you know, this would have mass potential. You know, I'm not saying you should sound like you're interested, but I'm just thinking of like, man, for me, I'm like, I would love to bring my kids up for a day, and just pour countertops, and my kids just love and my mom, my daughter just turned eight. And so it's like, the thing that they love to do the most right now it's arts and crafts, and, you know, they're just everything is very hands on. And I feel like a lot of especially the youth, I hope, you know, we can redirect a lot of them back into doing things with their hands. And I know a lot of parents, you know, have the guilt complex of screen time and all this stuff that we're gonna have to deal with. And, you know, that we didn't have to deal with when we were kids, you know, you're out riding motorcycles and dirt bikes, and you know, and you still are so good for you. Now, you're kind of as we close here, like, do your daughters have any interest in the business or what like, how old are they? No,
Speaker 1 1:02:30
absolutely not. They don't want to do that. I tried to get my youngest. So I've 18 and 20 year old I tried to get my youngest when she was like 12. I'm like, Do you want a dirt bike trying to get her and now she didn't want it. I'm like, what? 12 year old does not want a dirt bike. I'm like, Are you crazy? She's like, No, Mom, that's a boy thing. I'm like, No, I have a motorcycle. It's not a boy thing. What are you talking about? Also, so I did go to this Stillwater High School and we built a I helped them build a coffee table out of concrete. So I have done that too.
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:03:01
Yeah, so the girls have no interest. All right, well, it's okay. Oh, no, I mean, I've mentioned many times in the podcast, like I kind of hope my kids don't have an interest in building. But now as I get older, I'm like it would be kind of fun to work with, if they only if they have a passion in it. So right. I mean, frankly, it's like whatever people are passionate about, that's what's exciting. And I can me kind of radiates out of you, you know, your passion. So I'm really excited to see it. Well. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast. Maybe as we wrap it up. Why don't we give just two little personal things like what are some like from a learning standpoint? You know, what are I always like to ask people like, how do you self educate? Or what are your inspirations as you look out?
Speaker 1 1:03:39
Let's see, I look at a lot of art. I do look at art not being an artist. And I have invited other artists, I've actually had Richard merchant, I think he's, I don't know if I'm saying his last name, right. He's, like a sculptor, he came and made a piece out of concrete with me. Because, you know, it's like, I do like to invite people to come and make stuff. So yeah, like that's an inspiration just looking at. I really like to like cross industries and say, What out of this industry can I use in my industry? I think that's really smart. And I've felt like that also, like when I was an engineer, you know, different things. It's like can healthcare learn from you know, automotive engineering? Can automotive engineering, learn from health care, things like that, especially even like when you're running a business? So like, I was originally an automotive engineer and automotive engineering, they have so many great processes that in business practices and things like that, that like no other industry has. And you know, that's why it takes like four years to launch a car usually is because well, not just not just like all of the practices, but also you know, regulations, whatever. But like they have so many different things that they go through like is it gonna have bugs squeak or rattle? You know, and they do all the testing for that. Are does it have enough lighting is there enough luck, you know, all of this, all of those things, all of those little details, I think, just being able to cross and like look at other industries and other, you know, products and cross it over and say, How can I use that in this?
Mark D. Williams<br> 1:05:11
That's amazing. Well, thank you very much. And we'll have everything taped in the show notes and the online will help us push it out as well. And, yeah, we will look forward to seeing Amazon being released in a short order. Can we go from there and thanks again for coming on.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:27
Thanks, Mark. I appreciate you having me.
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