Episode 18 - Jackson Schwartz of Hennepin Made

Written By Mark Williams

The Art of Glass Blowing and the story of a master crafter turned business savant. Jackson Schwartz the co-founder of Hennepin Made expounds his thoughts, experiences, and stories in a way that relates to everyone in the pursuit of passion and business.

Join us for our first LIVE audience event we hosted at the incredible showroom in Hennepin Made's Glass Factory. Jackson Schwartz the co-founder of Hennepin Made expounds his thoughts, experiences, and stories in a way that relates to everyone in the pursuit of passion and business. A lively and attentive audience of 60 was in attendance for a deep dive into the pursuit of passion around blowing glass. Starting in Wisconsin to the travels for world-class learning in Canberra, Australia, and back again, Jackson shares his deep insights, business lessons, failures, success, and the mindset to NEVER stop improving your craft.

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About Jackson Schwartz

Jackson is an artist, glassblower, and founder of the modern handmade lighting company Hennepin Made. He has been working with glass for nearly twenty years and designing lights for over a decade. Since 2017 he has been working on utilizing Hennepin Made's urban manufacturing to be a catalyst for the Root District neighborhood in downtown Minneapolis.

Resources

  • Mark D. Williams 0:00

    Before we get started, I just want to extend to thanks to Jackson and Schwartz, one of the cofounders of Hennepin maid and his team for letting us host you all tonight. It is wonderful space. And so how about a big round of applause for hand up and

    Mark D. Williams 00:17

    I'd also like to thank some of our event sponsors. We'll have them stand up here to be recognized. We have synergy windows, we've got Corey. And we also have Dave with bell mortgage. So all your food and drink are from those two individuals. We also have Aden St. Where's Nicole and her team? Oh, right over here. So they have the photo booth in the back. You guys can take a hammer it up however you want, when we're done. And then also our season one sponsors. We've got color windows, we've got Mark and Peter over here. So big shout out to Pella. We also have Eric Robertson from NRD landscaping back here. Chaska Hawk rad of 99. Thank you. And I think that's it for our sponsors. So none of this could really happen without them so very much appreciate that. So I guess without further ado, I'm Mark Williams. I'm the host of the curious builder podcast. Welcome to our first live event. Thank you for coming out and listening to listen to our show. So for those that will hear this recording, we are in a killer vibe. You can check it out on video, but this is an amazing showroom. So Jackson, why don't you kick it off. And tell us a little bit about the history of Hennepin made and I got started.

    01:33

    Great. Thanks, everybody for coming and supporting us. It's always fun to gather in person. Still feeling good. So a little bit of background, about this building where we're at today. This building was built in 1954. It's always been a glass factory. So it's got a really cool history. It was built by Ford McNaught which was a window manufacturer. And so we're the third owner of the building. So we feel like we're carrying on that torch, you know, glass. There was never any glass blowing in this building from what I know. But they did have a decorative division where they did stained glass windows and like church restorations. And in the back of the building, which was the city desk where architects and designers used to come in, there's actually a glass floor mosaic in the floor of terrazzo mosaic. So when we were looking for buildings, I was cold calling all around the city. Because when you compete with like, you know, commercial real estate developers, you don't really succeed when you're when you're exercise. So we were in the cold calling mode. And the owner of brain glass at the time, said, Yeah, I'd be interested in someone's going to come on over and tell him on the phone at glassblowing. And he pulled back the mat and it was like I looked up to this, you know, heavens, it was like this is it. So it was pretty cool. You know, it took about two years to be able to acquire the site. And that was back in 2016. And so this is our showroom, and of the building split down the middle. The front half is glass house, which is our hospitality business, our sister company, and then the back half is headed to Maine, which is our artisan manufacturing.

    Mark D. Williams 03:04

    Now I know that so you have the wedding venue, which is the Glass House, did that start right away in 2016? Or did that kind of evolve?

    03:11

    Like most things that I'm involved with, in business, it's kind of an accident, I feel like what you'll learn, you'll see you'll kind of hear this theme. Yeah, so that was a friend of ours who owned an ad agency, they did our brand. And we built out their previous space, we helped them design and build it out in this warehouse in Northeast Minneapolis. And so they were going to actually move into the building and take over that space. And it was like I already bought the building, I was doing all the construction, I was managing on site and stuff. And I was kind of like waiting, they were dragging their feet. And finally I had like, Alright, guys, we gotta get beers and like, actually decide if you're going to do this. And then they were like, we can't do it, you know, their businesses wasn't in a position to do it. And so we're like, Okay, what do we do with space. In the meantime, I've always been really involved in, you know, art and kind of artists and connect artists. And so I had a friend who wanted to throw this magazine launch party for this art magazine. And we threw this kind of crazy like underground party. And then people just from there started asking if they could host stuff here. And so after about a year of that, I was like, Alright, we gotta actually like legitimize this thing, I'm gonna get in trouble, you know, like from a city or somebody's gonna come in and shut it down. So then we're kind of like, okay, how do we turn this into like a legit business. So then from there, we like built the whole thing out.

    Mark D. Williams 04:22

    So rather than some like rural high school party where there's like illegal liquor being sold, and like a cornfield, it was like in the city and a giant glass house. So that's, that's pretty much a way to get your liquor license as a good call. Yeah, before we get too far down the road with what this amazing space has become. I'd like to go back a little bit to the beginning. And the book that you guys published is pretty incredible. If you haven't read it, it's in your bags, and you can get it on your way out as well. But why don't you tell us a little bit about your history of how you got into glassblowing and maybe even your childhood? I don't know was there other entrepreneurs in your family, and then walk us up through kind of your journey through school and down to Canberra Australia before we Get the job.

    05:00

    Yeah. Okay, well, so I have like no formal business training. And I didn't even know what the word entrepreneurial or entrepreneur meant until like, well after I was one formally in our society, so I didn't, I didn't really have that, from my upbringing. My dad was an engineer. And my mom was a teacher. So my mom taught culinary education at the high school, and my dad, engineer traffic systems, and so nothing to do with art or glass or, you know, entrepreneurial kind of endeavors. But they always encouraged me to be really curious. And so I grew up in the countryside, love, kind of like exploring in the woods, we grew up on like five acres of woods, it was amazing. So I had kind of the Tom Sawyer like upbringing. And, and so when I was in high school, I really loved making stuff. And the two avenues for that were shop shop class, you know, and art, right. And so it was like, you know, kind of extended both down those pathways. And the, the art one really was was fun for me, because, you know, there was an expressive element to it, right. And so, when I got into my last couple years of high school, I'd seen I'd seen glass blowing actually, like on YouTube. And that was like, I was like, wow, this is, this is really cool. Like, I gotta figure out how to do this. And so I was, I was really obsessed with it. And I knew the university had a program in River Falls, where I grew up. And I was working at a pizza restaurant, and one of the pizza drivers, the other delivery drivers were all in college. And, you know, I'm 16 year old, totally naive. And so I asked him what he was doing. And I said, Well, I'm going to Glasgow, do you have to work? Cuz I'm in the program? And I was like, Are you kidding? Can I come and so I'd sneak in there night with him, and help make, you know, drinking glasses and stuff. And, and then there was a, there was a program through the university system where you could go, you could apply to college early, essentially. So I went, I got accepted. I basically just stalked this glass Professor until I think he was like, scary to me. And so that in the spring, I thought I was gonna go there in the fall. And so anyway, I ended up showing up in the spring and saying, Hey, next fall, I'm coming. And he's like, Yeah, you know, talk to me in the fall. And so I like throughout the summer, I called him at his house, and, and he wouldn't, he'd stopped me, like, you know, stop answering and stuff. And so, finally, he answered again. And I said, Well, can I just show up? And he's like, Yeah, but you're not in the class. And so I showed up the first day of the class. And I had like, this is like, pre like, you know, internet really like being effective for scheduling stuff. But being

    Mark D. Williams 07:29

    a stalker is still a real thing.

    07:32

    That is still very, very effective, being persistent mark. And sorry, I shut up the first day of the class with my like, purple ad card that they can sign, you know, or whatever. And he'd basically just want to make eye contact with me. And he went around the room, and everybody had to say, who they were and why they wanted to be in the class or, and what, you know, what, what they're excited about, whatever, you know, he didn't call me and then everybody's kind of staring at me. And so I just, I'll never forget, for the rest of my life, he looked at me, and he just sighs me, like, looks down just puts his hand out, like, go ahead, because he and I, we both knew that was the moment I was in the class. And so

    Mark D. Williams 08:04

    that was really a start. That is an amazing, that's an amazing

    08:07

    story. Yeah, we're still like, we still stay in contact to this day. And yeah, and so anyway, I was pretty obsessed. And so he invited me back and, and then I really got, you know, moving a lot of momentum, and, you know, kind of the 10,000 hours thing. Well, I burned through that pretty quick and got pretty proficient at it. And, you know, the university program here that I went to North falls, it didn't have a lot of artists coming through it, just because we're not necessarily on a main circuit for, you know, glassmaking. And so I went and took a workshop from an artist who is Australian, and Australia has a really amazing glass school called the Canberra School of Art. And so anyway, it was in Pittsburgh, and he said, You know, I'm 18. And he said, Well, what do you want to do? I said, Well, I really loved doing glass. He said, We should move to Australia. And I was like, that's crazy. I'm not doing that.

    Mark D. Williams 08:57

    How old are you at this time? 18. And so

    08:59

    six months later, I got a one way ticket moving to Australia. I applied to the school got in and I was like, Alright, I'm doing it. Wow. And so I lived there. From the time I think I moved there was 19 and then moved back here. I was 22. So I lived there about four years.

    Mark D. Williams 09:13

    And just being in Australia, was that kind of the epicenter of glass like movement at that time. I mean, I feel like glassblowing is a very old art like why Canberra, Australia?

    09:22

    Well, in the United States, Seattle's the epicenter, there's guy named to Hooli, some of you may have heard of, right. And so he actually started his schooling and training in Madison, Wisconsin was the first program in the United States. So it's actually rooted in the Midwest and then he went to Rhode Island School design helped initiate that program and then he's from Seattle moved back there. And then he developed kind of this whole ecosystem there. There's a glass school there called Pilchuck which is more like an intensive workshop type school it's not like a four year degree program. But anyway, all this Glasgow established their Canberra was kind of this you know, outlet like halfway across the world. And when they establish was a school in the 70s, they took our approach, it's very traditional teleca house model, which is, you know, really important school in Germany. With a modernist movement with architecture, design art, a lot of that stuff was born out of that. So a lot of the aesthetics we see today was really born on the Bauhaus movement. And so what that what they do is they find leaders in each domain from all over the world, and they recruit them to come to one place, and they set up the school in the way that they want their workshop in the way they want. So the guy who started the glass workshop, Carlos Moya, he was a German and phenomenal artist wasn't a glass boy, but he did kill him for me. And so he invented a whole bunch of techniques with class and he was like, more like a painter almost. And he was still there. When I was there, he wasn't teaching anymore, but I worked on his team when it would help make work and you'd work with these amazing artists. And they're visiting artist program, we had like, Lino Tagliapietra, who's known as the best glasspar in the world, he's from Italy, like 10 generations back glass floor, he came into the workshop with us, you know, so it was like, got to work on teams like that. And so it was like, every two months, you had a glassblower, from Mexico, from Japan, from Argentina, like all coming through and bringing, like wildly different tactics, techniques, expressive kind of attributes to the process.

    Mark D. Williams 11:13

    I wasn't familiar with that process that Bauhaus movement is, you know, the school of thought, how come? Do you think we want to focus that much on it? But why hasn't that taken off in the US or has it and just smaller, I mean, I've never even heard the term before. But it seems like a phenomenal way to advance an art form or a really any, there are

    11:29

    some examples, like Chromebooks, School of Art has more of that type of education model. But the challenge with it is if you're not really like obsessive, really know, what you want to do, you know, it doesn't, the trade offs are that you're, you're headed down a very, kind of very clear path, right. And so I think our education, American a lot of ways it's a very innovative country, right? Like, we like to experiment and, and maybe there's less structure in that. So we want to explore like a wide variety of things. So I think it's more cultural than anything else. And there's trade offs to both I mean, there's still really amazing education here. But for me, I think, really loving craft, I wanted something that was highly structured, that was like, I want to be the best, right? Like, and that's kind of like the message my parents gave me was like, not not, not in a negative pressure way. But kinda like, if you're gonna do this is really hard. So like, You got to get really good, right? Like, and you better be really committed. So they're kind of like, go wherever the best are, figure out where the best are and go work with that was their message?

    Mark D. Williams 12:29

    Is there a natural talent element? I mean, understand the 10,000 hour rule that essentially you become a master of something, but like, when did you realize that a glass was your art form? And be that you had some significant talent that you wanted to, you know, keep developing was that back in Wisconsin before we even got to Australia?

    12:46

    Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I was really fortunate that I had some natural affinity for the material. And, you know, other I think other people recognize that more maybe than I did. And I don't mean to sound like arrogant in that. But it was like, I was so obsessed at getting better than I didn't even think about, like, Oh, I'm really good at this. I just thought like, I need to get better. I want to get better at right. It was like just this, like, just it was such a high level focus about like, How can I constantly learn more, I'm so curious about it. With that, I was aware that like, it was like after like three months, like Wow, I like I can make like pretty nice things. That's actually really hard when I did a lot of teaching after I graduated. And it's, um, it's kind of like a professional athlete, you know, where there's like, certain affinities, however, like, you can take somebody with a really good attitude and sort of like an average skill level and make them really good. It just might take them a little bit longer, and they're gonna have to work a lot harder. And then you can also have people that are really good, like, don't want to try that hard that like you maybe don't want on your team, you know, so like, it's one thing to be really good. It's another thing to be really good part of something, right. And so that's kind of a, you know, an important distinction.

    Mark D. Williams 13:54

    So let's fast forward a little bit into the business or we'll spend the entire time in Australia. On a side note, I actually went to school in Wollongong, Australia first semester, so I had mentioned that I Yeah, it's not far from from Canberra. I played water polo. And one of the meats we have a camper. Nice. What years were you there?

    14:09

    I was there 2005 to 2008

    Mark D. Williams 14:13

    Okay, I was there a one? So and, you know,

    14:16

    the joke in Australia is the best thing about Canberra is leaving. Because I get we tell people here, you know, I was like, Oh, we're in Australia, and you don't say Sydney, or Melbourne? And they're like, and you say Canberra, they're like

    Mark D. Williams 14:28

    where? Well, and it's not on the coast? No, it's not on the coast. Yeah, so

    14:32

    it's a little bit sleepy. I guess it's improved a lot. But I've been there for back for several years. So

    Mark D. Williams 14:36

    you, you come back to the US and walk us through meeting your co founder, Joe and like when you come back, like where when did you start a company like what were you doing once you move back here to the US?

    14:47

    So when I moved back here it was 2008 Summer 2008. And so like I didn't again, I didn't know anything really like about like, you know how the economy really functioned. I mean, I kind of generally understood that. So it's like global meltdown. Right?

    Mark D. Williams 15:01

    Yeah, great years to start a business. But

    15:04

    yeah, so and I have an art degree. So it was like, Alright, this is really good timing. And so the university or falls, the professor that I had started with, he was on his kind of way out to retirement. So I stepped in part time and, and kind of helped, you know, support the program and as an interim professor or visiting professor and so, what was cool is there was all these students that were really talented and really energized, but they just hadn't had a lot of exposure. And I come in, and I'm, like, you know, wild, and just like, you know, like, have all these stories and all these cool things I've learned. And so I had a lot of fun work with them. And, you know, I, I've always had to figure out how to sell right, like, and that's a huge part of, I mean, it doesn't matter who you are, like, we're all gonna sell something. And so and you can sell the dream, you can sell the drinking glass, you can sell whatever you want, right? And so from the time I graduated, I moved back here. And, you know, the honest truth is I moved to my parents basement for like, eight months, and like, grounded out, you know, like, and like, was like, How can I sell something in glass in 2008? And so like, I started like, looking around going like, how are the people selling stuff? And so art fairs is first thing so like, River Falls is this tiny Art Fair? And I like bought a booth and like, started selling stuff there. And then like, you know, started like doing them all over the country. And and so one of my students, Joe, who's now my business partner, he was a ceramicist. And so the ceramic studio and the glass studio are next to each other. And so I always be like, kind of like peeking in the door. How I described in the university environment, ceramics and glass. Ceramics is like classical music, right? It's just like, like, everything is like good in there. Like they are like, they're like Zen doubt, right? And the glass studio and their Caeser falls, they like share a wall in the doorway. It is like punk rock and volume 12. It's like, what can we bring all the time. And so Joe was really drawn to that, like, he's in there, like motorcycles. And he's got like, a, you know, kind of a fun energy. And so, anyway, he's like, over there in his classical music zone, and he's here in a house. And finally, I just said, like, why don't you like, get over and take the class and like, start, you know, chord, the camera, the dark side, right? And so we hit it off right away. And I said, you know, you know, I'll work with you as an apprentice and, you know, basically teach everything I know, and hopefully exceed me, right. And like, within a couple of years is like Byron is awesome.

    Mark D. Williams 17:18

    When that was that was mainly just a natural chemistry you had, just like, why that instinct, click? Was it just a personality thing? Or? Yeah, it's like,

    17:25

    Joe? Well, I think a couple things. One, Joe is like the most genuine human you'll ever meet in your life. And so he's really fun, easy to get along with, to just drive like you can tell when people are really driven, right? Like, we all know that in our personal and professional lives. And you sense that energy like, oh, man, this person, I like their energy, right? And we can always point exactly what our finger is on it. And you know, that word drive can mean a lot of different things. But you can tell that they're trying to accomplish something, or they're, they have a high low engagement, right? And so it was like this person super engaged in the kind of like, willing to do whatever it takes. And that's kind of the attitude you have to have if you want to be an artist, or turns out an entrepreneur.

    Mark D. Williams 18:01

    Before we talk about how you joined. Just because I read it last night actually, it was just such a funny story. Can you share the story of down in Des Moines of you trying to sell and then also Joe's tent fiasco, just I think everyone sees this incredible space that we're in. And you know, it would be easy to think that, wow, this is just amazing. You got here, but like, you were living in your parents basement, like a lot of entrepreneurs. It's like a classic example. But walk us through a couple of those failures are those real waking moments? You're like, wow, this is not going how I thought it would go. Yeah, I

    18:32

    mean, we have like the this isn't the path kind of, you know, moment. That's our, like, optimistic way of framing it right. There's some other choice words you could use in that moment. But it turns out selling glass out of like, you know, like a little tiny tent in the summer in the Midwest is bad. That's a bad like, it's not the path, right. And so my two favorite memories are one was in Des Moines. I wasn't actually there. Because we did separate shows. After like, the first year it was like divide and conquer. We can do this, we can both be doing it. Right. And so he calls me like the night before the show, like middle of night. And he's like, yeah, like this, like tornado base. Level, like everything, right? And I'm like, Oh, what do we do? He's like, Well, I think there's like a half dozen like pieces left all like in the morning, like, figure out what I can salvage and spend the next few days kind of like, you know, trying to an attempt is like, you know, it's basically just like complete shambles. And he's like, texting me pictures and stuff. And what was cool is like the art fair did a really nice thing. They like did a fundraising thing and I think they got a couple grand like all the artists and then there was like some insurance thing. So anyway, like we kind of figured it out but it was like, it was kind of like a sign right and you ignore the signs enough and the signs get bigger, you know?

    Mark D. Williams 19:44

    Till it blows away your tent. Well, he said I think he was selling a $4,500 vase and no one wanted anything. And and on top of it all the tent was like wrapped around a telephone pole, like all the way down the block.

    19:54

    Yeah. When you talk about presentation, that's not like the best presentation. The other one we had that was the sign kept good. Bigger saying like this isn't the path was we went to Denver art fair called Cherry Creek and it like it flashed flooded. And the tents are like floating down the street, you know, and like the garbage cans that don't have enough weight or like become like these dams. And him and I are like literally out there like up to like our chest and like all of our stuff relatively safe because we kind of pushed it back. But we're like grabbing paintings off these tents for people and just trying to get it to like high ground. You know, it's like, We're way too vulnerable here. Like we got to figure out a different, we got to figure out a different recipe. So we knew that wasn't a long term path, but you essentially do like you do whatever you have to do, and you kind of keep doing it until you can figure out what the next thing is. Even if you know, for a while your intuition is telling you like this isn't going to be the thing like you embrace that journey. Right? It's like really important.

    Mark D. Williams 20:47

    One thing I've noticed, I've been to a few art fairs, and just in general, I love art, mainly because I'm not good at it. So it but I do appreciate it. I feel like there's a very strong community among all artists, whether it's art or music. Is that Is that true?

    21:02

    Yeah, I think there's like circles, right? So like when we're doing that, like you meet like this kind of like this, like, kind of nomadic circle of artists, right, and you show up at the same fairs and kind of get the people that like, have your maybe level of aesthetic or whatever, and you can get drinks together and commiserate about, you know, your tent floating down the street or whatever. Right. And so yeah, you see, you kind of develop these little communities. And, and I think, you know, depending on there's all different types of art. And so I think there's different circles that develop community, just like, you know, in building trades, or architecture, or, you know, banking or whatever. So, I think it's, it's really about like, shared experiences more than anything, right. And so as you have similar type of experiences, you feel a connection, because you can relate, and it helps you process that. Yeah,

    Mark D. Williams 21:45

    I mean, just for, for me personally, like even the curious barrel podcast, me starting, it was all based on community. And most of the people in this room I know, personally, and I appreciate you coming out here, mainly because I had no idea what the show was going to be. But you did it because I asked you, which I appreciate. And but there's, I've been so awakened in the last year or two of just community and how powerful it is. And I don't I mean, I think Minnesota is pretty special. And I want to give voice to our incredible artists. But I just think any community when they kind of band together, I mean, you can just move mountains. And I love this idea that you're this nomadic tribe of I assume you probably see people at multiple rfidsec and people and people, do you find that any of those connections now today where you are? Because how many years ago? Has it been since you've done? I

    22:30

    think the last one was probably 1112 years ago, at least

    Mark D. Williams 22:33

    do you feel like is there any connections now? Or how often do people reach out and be like, hey, you've you traded your tent for a building way to go, like, has any of those connections come through? Or that was just kind of a

    22:43

    really, I think it's like, you know, I tried to to evaluate kind of life and chapters, right? Not that there's like a definitive stop and start but kind of like, you know, okay, that's a chapter in that chapter. Sometimes there's like a closing the book, like, that's the last Art Fair I've ever done in my life. That's a good chapter to end. You know, like, I drove back from Telluride, Colorado going, That's chapter is done.

    Mark D. Williams 23:02

    Like this is it I read, you got a $25 paper? I got one paperweights. Yeah. And you spent like $2,000 on gas. Yeah. But you got $25.

    23:11

    So in business terms, that's that's not good. Right. Important lesson, though. important, important.

    Mark D. Williams 23:17

    So okay, so we've got that those failure stories out of the way, which I do enjoy, I could go on those all night. But so what are you two years working on this? When did you and Joe know that you want to start the company in Hennepin made? Where did the name come from, and essentially, walk us through kind of its maturation to where it is right now?

    23:36

    Yeah, so during that time, when we were doing the art fair stuff we were renting from a nonprofit in town called false eyeglasses, an amazing organization. They're now in Seward. And these artists, nonprofits, and they're in all different materials, or mediums in the city and a lot of cities are really, really important credible pieces of infrastructure for artists to have access, and learn and get stuff started, whether you're a hobbyist or enthusiast, or you want to start a business. And so we started by renting and I built a couple studios I built was part of a very large nonprofit that established about $15 million nonprofit in Australia glass center, tourist attraction, really big deal. I didn't know it was happening until I got there. And just fortuitous timing. So I had been part of that experience. And I built a small studio in room falls for a friend of mine. And so Joe really wanted to build a studio because he hadn't done it before. And, you know, he had that, you know, naiveness which was good and bad, you know, and I had done a couple of times and and when you build a studio, it's like okay, now I have this like thing that I have to take care of and pay for. But we actually had grown enough that we had enough people that wanted to buy glass that with the nonprofit we're kind of using up most of the resources there. So we're kind of getting the the community was kind of getting frustrated with us. And we understood that's not really the purpose is like it's there to support you and then a certain point you need to move on and

    Mark D. Williams 24:55

    what kind of things were you selling like you branch out into light fixtures?

    24:58

    Yeah, so the I guess have the kind of connection to lighting. So we evolved from like drinkware, and decorative pieces and accessories. And then I got, we got some commissions from designers and architects to make all kinds of different things like everything from repairs to sinks to lighting. And so when we did, I did a lighting commission, I was like, Okay, this is definitely where we want to go, this is super fun to work on. And designers speak our language, they get us. And so I'm like, This is my new community, like, we're gonna go make friends with all these people. And so running glas T is very, very expensive. It's very heavy equipment, energy is running 24/7. And so I was like, alright, Joe, you want to build a studio, I'll do that. But in your mind, we're building a factory. That's the model. Because either like you either you have to scale it or like you're doing it out of your garage with like a tiny furnace. And like you keep super low overhead. And I wasn't super interested in doing that. So I was like, alright, the model is here. We're building factories, support a community of people that can create at a really high level. And he's like, onboard, so I was like, Okay, we're gonna do that, then we have to go get a customer that can pay us every month, right? And so I said, Okay, I'll work with you and build a studio, and I'm gonna go get room and board in the first year that we're in business. And he's like, alright, that's like, you gotta be ready to produce and he's still in school. He hasn't graduated. I'm done teaching at this point. And so anyway, all that happened. We built the studio like super scrappy, bought stuff off eBay, Craigslist, I got the furnace in Southern Illinois, like drove overnight. Like it's just like, your like your quintessential like startup story. Yeah, I like know nothing about business. Like I haven't read case studies. Like I haven't done the, you know, like, I don't know, any of this stuff. I'm just like, This is what we got to do next. Like it's just all like an intuitive like, survival mode.

    Mark D. Williams 26:40

    I like your idea of selling it before you have it. Because I think that's a classic entrepreneurial way of of launching a business, but you must have had some skin in the game or money. What kind of money did you have to put into the business? Did you have to take loans at that point to buy this kind of equipment? Or how did you navigate that?

    26:55

    Yeah, so at that point in my life, I was very scared of debt. And just like, I feel like my parents did a really good job of making me try to be financially responsible. So I was just like, super fearful of debt. And I didn't really understand like, credit, I didn't understand it at that. And so I graduated college, I was working in Australia worked a lot is like a higher glassblower. And I made really good money actually working for contemporary artists, or designers for all kinds of people. And so I was able to save about 3500 bucks when I moved back here. And so my parents let me live in their basement for free at 35 more bucks, I'm like, Okay, I do art fairs, I need to turn that into, you know, more money to be able to continue to do this. So we built a we had about I had about 60 grand, is the amount that I built the whole first studio with, with no no financing, no loans, nothing. I had a credit card, that maxed out a few times. But I like you know, knew that the you know, sales were coming in, we, you know, it was kind of month to month. But that was essentially I was really against like having, you know, like investment because I was just really worried about controlling everything. And I didn't really know what our model was going to be. And so 60 grand is not enough to build glass to like, so it's like basically, like get the thing hot turned on and start selling or like you've already sold it, right? I knew though when when we went to a board. So Bell manufacturing is based here, they make steel furniture. And so we got a tour, we got an introduction to the owner belt, and we got a tour and stuff. And so it's kind of talking about this. And, and so I kind of had a little bit of sense. And they're very different than us in a lot of ways, but they're similar in some. So I kind of have a sense of like, what we need to do it. I knew if I went and presented a room board, I knew the first thing they would ask me is like, can you scale? And can you deliver on time? I knew those were the questions like nothing else matters if you say no, and either one of those questions. So we had to build the studio before we could actually sell to them. So there was some some risks there. And I knew there'd be about eight months was my guess, that I'm like, I don't know how we come up with like, five grand a month to pay for this thing. So we threw cake parties to be honest and joking. I mean, they weren't like your college, you know, they were like sophisticated like this, like sax player. I'm not joking. They were really nice. Like, you know, and like, you know, like my parents friends and stuff, they got money. So like it will light them and like, they'll buy bases and stuff. I'm serious. Like it's a community, right? Because everybody wants to support right? It's like, you know, like my 24 year old friend. Like they can't buy any, like, you know, it's like, so we just had to figure out like, okay, they can buy like they can pay 10 bucks for beer, they'll do that. They'll buy gifts for you know, like for whatever they'll buy drinking glasses for their house and like next thing you know, you got like 2500 bucks rent is paid utilities are paid now like now I can go one more month forward.

    Mark D. Williams 29:32

    How did you know that room and board was your first target?

    29:36

    Well, I we didn't really know enough about lighting to get like into the architecture field and I knew developing product was really expensive. And for those you that are involved in like product companies that work on this stuff, it's like, you know, I'm talking about like super long lead time to get from the inception to the time like somebody actually buys the first thing. And then like all the marketing and stuff behind it. And so I had become friends with a few different people that were In kind of product companies, from makers that are a sort of established like studio models to like a company like law if you know them. So I became a kind of an event met the founder and one of the other key people there. And so I just asked them a lot of questions like, you know, like, Who do you sell to? And they were kind of like, well, you know, there's all these designers and you know, that's a really good model, but like, you need the consistency when you're starting. And so I got some kind of pointers, like consistency is really important. And so I had never heard a room board before, actually. And so then I started researching them. And then I got connected by manufacturing, he had said that they're actually looking for a glass vendor. So like, I had kind of like, okay, yeah, this all is adding up. And so that's kind of, you know, you kind of law had worked with them as well. So I had a couple different contexts of work, the good things to say about them. And I was like, I need enough scale, like, we got to make, like, you know, three 400 units a month, that already like sold to get this thing like stable so that I can like, get my head above water and start to figure out what's next.

    Mark D. Williams 30:58

    So that pitch meeting obviously was successful. Yeah, well, I

    31:01

    mean, we did it, you know, like, we try to do stuff with a little bit of flair, because we're artists. So you know, it's not a normal, like business meeting. And I have no context. I've never been in a business meeting my life at this point. Like, I'm 2526. I've never actually like been in a formal business meeting, I've sold on the street, you know, and I've taught, those are my two like things I've done. And so I'm like, Alright, how do we make an impression I was like, and I've always worked in restaurants on the side. So I've always had a night job throughout this whole period, you know, like in my teens and 20s. And so, I love hospitality I love like, you know, restaurants or like theater, you just can make magical moments happen. And so I was like, well, we gotta like do a pop up kitchen, the glass studio and like, throw like a dinner party and like, build this whole experience, which, you know, you don't have to do that, right. It's so much work. But my mind was sent out. We did it, and they like, loved it. And then they came back like two weeks later. So they were like, Okay, well, if you want to come up with some designs, accessories and lighting, you know, we'll come back in a couple of weeks and review. And so we like really hustled and put all this stuff together.

    Mark D. Williams 31:59

    This is you just you enjoy it this time, or is there any other people and there's another guy, Kevin

    32:03

    Landsberg, who's really critical on the story of Henan pomade. And it's been there since the beginning as well. And so it was the three of us and so put together all these designs, and we're thinking if they take one light, and like a vase in a ball, like we're set, we've made it like we can pay rent, we don't have to do the, you know, party thing every month anymore. They got their dirty business, right. And so we, they came in, and we had like a two hour meeting. And then they were like, okay, cool. We're gonna run all of it. And there was 19 designs. Whoa, and we were like, and they're like you, you'll be able to produce it right? And I'm like, Yeah, we will. No idea. Like, I have no clue how we're gonna do this. Joe is still in school. So it's Kevin, right? I have them two days a week. And so anyway, like, it's so funny to me. And like, three weeks, four weeks later, I get the PIO, which is for the approval samples, which I think it was like 2500 bucks. And I was like, we made it. Like, I thought this was like the real order, you know. And so, you know, just like, let's scale like, and understanding scale. And so we learned a lot like when we actually had to deliver, we learned a lot. And we My thing was like, my thing was, I was like deliver on time, if we if we say we can do it, we gotta figure out how to do it. I don't care if we're working like seven. And we did, we worked seven days a week, we work like crazy hours. And you know, that's not sustainable. But you can sustain it for six months while you're figuring stuff out. Because you're surviving.

    Mark D. Williams 33:18

    And you quit your night serving job. Yeah, I

    33:20

    actually. So another key person, this story is my partner Rose. And so I was, you know, we lived together at the time, and she she worked in nonprofit, which, you know, doesn't pay well, it's for profit, but she had at least a stable income. And so I was working like crazy hours. And she's kind of getting sick of that. And we've been together for, like, you know, about a year and a half. And she kind of said, like, this doesn't work for me, because I'm not in the hours, you know, so she's like, quit your night job, I'll take care of like, you know, our living expenses for you know, a while while you get just get it moving, like, get it going, right. And so that kind of really helped me then focus where I can have a little bit better balance, and you gotta have somewhere where you can ever release, you know, otherwise, it's like, it really starts to lose the fun. And so that was really critical. And so, you know, those early years, and for a long, long time, it allowed me to take, you know, a lot of risks. Because at the end of the day, like I still have a place to sleep, I still have like, if everything fails, like I can get my feet back on me. And so that was always kind of our balance was like, you know, she she had she kind of stable in common, you know, I was able to be risky, right? And so and she believed the vision she like she was like Instagram manager and now she's got like a serious job at a foundation. She's like, in a break time, like running on Instagram because like, you know, you're you're scrappy. And this is five or six years ago, but she played a critical role in getting the company off the ground as well. There's like, I think in any business that's like startup like that there's always like these kind of invisible people and what you present, but you know, they're out there hustling with a partner they're like, like we had one example where there are chord sets for our lights didn't come in. And so I had to buy like the parts and we would throw parties at our house on Friday nights. We would drink wine and have people assembled with me Don't food, you know, because it was like, I got like four weeks to get all these done. And so I was like

    Mark D. Williams 35:04

    in building what you did with your friends, you'd move into a house, you would not pay the builder to paint your garage. You'd have all your family over and you'd buy beer and pizza. You've taken this to a whole new level. Yeah, we don't do it anymore. Now. Yeah. That was well played, sir. Well played. In the showroom that we're in. What do you have any fixtures here that were part of the original room and board designs,

    35:23

    we have a similar collection right here above this is our Halo they sell something similar called bandhan. That has a similar aesthetic. It's different a little bit different shapes and colors and different hardware. But the I don't have all the collections that we launched with them. majority of them are still they're still selling today. And one of the collections is the number one seller for us that we we launched in that first day. So pretty.

    Mark D. Williams 35:49

    Pretty good. Wow. That's how hard the follow up question after that one. That's pretty impressive. What? So as you've how many years ago was that original order. And

    36:02

    so the company is about 11 years old. So around 2012 is when we got the first order we first developed a partnership with them and 2011 took about six months to get everything going.

    Mark D. Williams 36:12

    And where was the studio? Because the first studio was not here. Correct?

    36:15

    Correct. So we were on East Hennepin Avenue and northeast, we love northeast. And when we started the studio, it was like Joe and me. So it was like Joe would use his name, go sell stuff, I would use my name and go sell stuff. And so when we decided to build like an organization, it was like, alright, we need a name. All right, you gotta have a name, right? It's got to stick. And so we're like Hennepin and we've always like I've always been really into like, you know, place based entrepreneurship, right? Because I'm like an artist and I care about like, what I'm creating where I'm creating. And so I've always wanted invest in the city, right? Like I made a decision to live in Minneapolis to plant roots here to stay here and invest. And so I really wanted our business to have some connection to the city. And so we started on Hennepin Avenue. I was like, let's call it hemp. That's awesome. Because like if you're from if you have any connection in Minneapolis, kinda like no like Hampton, oh, yeah, Minneapolis, right? Or Minnesota. And so we through our first studio sale with that name, and like the credit card receipts, you know, whatever, when you checked your thing online, said Hennepin and we had to add the made, because people thought they got like a ticket from you know, like a parking ticket. Right? So that was like a little bit of a brand fail. And we tell people like our company was Hennepin they'd be like Hennepin what? So we were like, well, we're the we're makers, you know, so I was like I hadn't been made. That's what it is now. And so we had like about six months that we were just Hennepin and then we we added the maid and and then that's kind of how it stuck.

    Mark D. Williams 37:42

    And so what year did you were able to buy this property said it was a two year process. I guess what year was that, that you got into?

    37:49

    So 2016. And so I think one of the things that has enabled us to have successes that I'm always looking about four to five years ahead, and trying to figure out where are we going to be? And what are the steps that I might have to be paying attention to to get us there. And so, you know, by like 2013 or two years in and I'm like looking at buildings, you know, and I'm, you know, meeting, you know, bankers and kind of like trying to figure out what this whole world means because by the time I'm ready, I have to be educated. Right? And so if I'm actually ready, I I'm not going to have the time to educate myself to know like how to get how to get the deal to come together, how to get it all to come together.

    Mark D. Williams 38:26

    Where are you still doing pop up dinners at every one of those marketing meetings with the

    38:30

    real business meetings are point right. So I understood now that

    Mark D. Williams 38:34

    I actually prefer that. I mean, anytime you want have a business meeting and make dinner, I think that's a solid strategy. Actually,

    38:39

    Mark, I also learned a term called efficiency in business that, you know, I still struggle with to this day, but yeah, so. But when we started the process to buy a building, like I had to start to learn a lot more about financials and a lot more about how debt and credit and a bunch of things worked. And so that was a pretty big learning process. And I had a CPA firm come in. And they asked the first question, they sit down for a business meeting, right? I got my nice shirt on. And they asked me how big my line of credit is. That's the first question. And I don't know what a line of credit is. Like, that's a true story. And so I'm like laughing because I know, I have to tell them I don't know. And like when I don't know. So I just tell you, I don't know. And they're like, why are you laughing? I'm like, I don't know what that is like, like what? You know, and they're like, Well, how did you fund this? And I'm like, well, like we're scrappy. I'm, I got credit cards and pay those off every month, I max it out, and then I pay it off. And then if there's not enough credit, I'll get another credit card. And they're like, that all combined is like a line of credit. But we didn't get that in the bank. I was like cool. All right, that makes sense to me, you know. So like a lot of is just like, you know, kind of learning as you go. And so I mapped out the areas of the city that I really liked. You know, when I'm having county GIS and you can figure out whoever the property are a lot of times during LLC, you still can trace it back. So good. The stalking thing, right? And so if I'm going to find somebody, I will find you and so I figured out who owns them, and then I call them and just Start cold calling. And you know, I liked his climate corridor like sewer like Northeast, and I really focused a lot of northeast to start because that's kind of our home was. And it was just, you know, there's too much activity happening there. And then this closing the corridor I really liked because I felt like there was an opportunity to help shape it. And I was really excited about being close to a farmers market. And being downtown was really exciting for us and, and then just the connection to glass and stuff. And so we actually had this under contract, and then it fell apart. And I was pursuing a different building. And that got complicated with some pollution, you know, that was found and stuff, and then this came back. And so sat credit, kind of serendipitous, like, I was like getting a lot further in and then all sudden, it was like, Okay, this is now a thing. And so

    Mark D. Williams 40:41

    how big was your team at this time? So you there's three of you, plus a few silent, let's say supporters, but how big is your actual team now that you got some of these orders? You've got? You've got a couple of years under your belt. Yeah, full

    40:51

    company was 12 people at that point when we when I bought the building, and so we went from 5000 square feet to acquiring 30,000 square foot site. And, yeah, I didn't want to do it twice. I think there's a right size for most businesses, right? And then if you want to jump to a different size, you have to evaluate Is it the same business and you know, kind of keep the same values. And so, you know, I think are the right size for our businesses, maybe you know, 5060 people, and I think about in terms of people, and then you can kind of do the revenue thing, you know, because like for me, the one I'm really building like what the Northstar is is like community and creativity. Those are the two things that are like the primary drivers for me. And so I think about the like kind of the the amount of people that I feel like we can take care of, and then how creative can we be? Can we be expressive with what we're doing? Can the can the Business Act, as you know, as an expressive work? Right. And I think I think a lot of people in business think like that. They just don't understand those terms. Because like, you know, they they exist in a different context, right, then like what my context has been,

    Mark D. Williams 41:58

    I think you have unique insight in the people I've talked to, I think your ability to look long term is very valuable. And probably something all businesses, I can tell you as myself, I've got a business coach is going to help me here do this over the next couple of months. But we spend a lot of time thinking the here and now. And I think what you've done is obviously paid extreme dividends. So I don't think it's that common. I think it's an incredible asset that you've been able to develop. And I love the fact that you've been able to empower your people. And I want to talk a little bit about that because I think it's pretty special. How you mentioned you when you moved originally it was both people, how many people do you currently employ now?

    42:32

    We're about 30 right now in the Hanapepe business and then our glasshouse team is five full time and then we have about 20 Part time because obviously we have events you have like a large staff and stuff.

    Mark D. Williams 42:43

    And how far how long into having this building before the Glass House and the wedding venue kind of became another entity that kind of help support in this whole space.

    42:54

    I was about two years. And so the first year was just getting had a premade setup. And then from there, we kind of like alright, what are we going to do at the side, the original vision was to have like a, you know, small, like coffee shop, that was a showroom as well. And then that evolved because it was like Alright, now we have people that are interested in renting our space and and then you know, we we ended up kind of adding in a cafe component before the pandemic, which ended up becoming really successful. And then between the pandemic and construction stuff, it's like not the right model for us. But 2018, the Super Bowl and Super Bowl was here. That was our first week. I mean, we opened for that we had a private booking and stuff. So so that kickoff,

    Mark D. Williams 43:37

    I mean, your space is amazing. I had overheard earlier that I think you have 42 Weddings this year alone, which is incredible. I assume there's a number of events in addition to that, in terms of overall revenue, how does the Glass House compared to Hennepin made in terms of a split?

    43:56

    So right now, it's probably about a third glass house and glass house is growing really fast. It'll grow probably close to 100% this year. You know, and I think there's still quite a bit of room there, we probably could double it again,

    Mark D. Williams 44:08

    is it because there's that much room to move in the market or because you're taking over that much market share.

    44:12

    It's more we're I think we're taking over market share. And then we're sort of hitting our stride with you know, gaining awareness and the right audience. And so we'll pursue pretty aggressive growth again next year, and then we'll sort of stabilize it because I think it'll be more or less the right size unless we figure out some other attributes in the model that work. So glasshouse is a scalable organization for you know, another couple of years and then it's like, you know, for small business like that, it's like give the right size, pay your people really well keep them and build a great community around it. And that's kind of like my recipe for I think how to build a successful organization that have been made, you know, really think in terms of a factory and it's vertically integrated. So you're building both a sales operation and a brand and then you're building continual improvements around the factory. So that's a very scalable business. I mean, I think you could grow that business to between 50 and 100 million if you wanted to. That's not my dream. But, you know, we will continue to scale it quite a bit over the next several years and be pretty assertive and, and in acquiring market share, we have such small market penetration there. You know, like, it's, it's awesome, like, when I travel and go to markets and do sales stolen? And like, Have you heard of us know, right? It's like, that's both the challenge and the opportunity. Right, right. Because like eight out of 10 doors and knock on they've never heard of this, right. And these are all people when they hear of us, they're like, Whoa, this is cool. This is exactly right. And so we know that there's a lot of opportunity out

    Mark D. Williams 45:38

    there. When, from business to business and business consumer, what percentage your split there. So like, obviously, I'm a builder, we've got architects and designers in the room, let's just say that they're all business. So we're buying from you, and versus obviously selling off the street, what's your split between the tooth?

    45:55

    Well, Jen and Chris are here, our sales team, so they probably give you real numbers. But I would say that we're probably 95 590 5% b2b 95% AMD. And that's really how our organization is tool. That's how it's built. And we're happy if you're a homeowner, and you want to come to us, we're happy to like help you with lighting. And so you get some lights. At the same point, you know, you probably don't need lights every year, right. And so we would love to work with you as many times as as we have the opportunity to. But if we're working, you know, with J, Kath, it's like, they have 10 projects this year, right? We're not they don't need us on every single one. But they might need us on three, right. And then we want to deliver like an incredible experience for them. And they know that that's what their client expectations are. And then when we, you know, we deliver on our promise, I talk a lot in the organization about keeping our promise because like, it's really important. So when we deliver on that promise to the designer and the designers client, then like we build that relationship and build that rapport with them. And so we want repeat business, right? Because not only is it like a smart way to run your business, it's just like, way more fun because it's like, Mark, we're going to do like homes forever, you know, like, oh, it's true, right. And so then like, each time, like we both learn, and then we get more creative and like, it also becomes way easier. And so then it's like really fun. Because as you become more successful, we become more successful, and I get to enjoy seeing your success, right. And I like feel like I'm like on the journey with you. And so I think that's what like businesses, it's most rewarding and a sense of community.

    Mark D. Williams 47:30

    I 100% agree. I mean, even from my own experience, and I assume this is similar to everyone that's done the tour before. So I came to do a tour, I can't remember how I think Jen Johnson did a phenomenal job getting me in here, because it's actually really difficult, you know, between a young family and a business for me to actually go do tours, plus my designers, frankly, pick out lighting and tile. So I get up there's a number of, you know, talented people in here that have over the years have been patient with me. Thank you. Mercedes, where are you? somewhere else? There she is front row? Of course she is. Anyway, the point is, is sometimes hard for owners to get into these. And then once you're there, you're like, Wow, this is amazing. I gotta talk to all my designers. I gotta get them all here. And then once I get really excited, I really know what that looks. Yeah, I apologize. You're all here because I got really excited by one two or so. Yeah, it was dangerous. But I mean, I was so impressed with it. So we have our home that just we just finished our artisan home tour. And we the designer had selected all the lights, they had ordered them all. And I called her and I said, Can we order some of these lights or return them? And she's like, No. And I'm like, Well, what if I really want them in my house? And she's like, the homeowner doesn't want them. I'm like, I want them. And she's like, Well, are you willing to pay for them? And I'm like, Oh, let's see if I can get her on a tour first. So I brought her in. She loved him. And you know, I was pumping the forges of optimism. And yeah, that was a bad joke. Thank you. And yes, it just happens. And so anyway, so she switched. And I tell you what, that was the most common thing on our entire house and we have a beautiful home I'm very proud of it. But the lights were just absolutely the star of the show. And now I can't wait to bring more people on because I keep telling people what I love about your SOP product is the craft you talk so much about your people and the handcrafted and now you're telling us kind of the your thought process and supporting the community I it shows in the actual fixtures themselves so many people would come through our homes and be like they would touch it they would feel the imperfections and there's a organic sense of playfulness in it. That attracts people to it and it's a story I love I love to sell case you didn't know but I did you give me a story. Oh man, I yeah, I'm doing a pretty good job not talking to this guy. Get a round of applause for my wife.

    49:45

    Thank you.

    Mark D. Williams 49:48

    That's for you, honey, you told me not to talk and I'm I made it 55 minutes without talking. So now it's my time step aside. So but anyway, back to the art no I can't wait to, I think anytime we get something that we're that passionate about, and sometimes it's people, and sometimes its product. And that's what I love about building and collaborating with artists like yourself, because I feel like you're right. Like I love telling this story, because I feel very passionate about it. So Well, thanks, we appreciate that. We'll talk after the show. Going back to keeping your people happy, you had mentioned, you know, pay them, encourage them, Tell tell the audience a little bit about, you know, what you do to encourage just team growth. And everyone is so happy, I don't think you're paying them to be happy. They just know, there seems like there's a joy in their work every time I've done the tour now three or four times? And they just, I don't know, there's a sense of just joy, a little pep in their step. Can you tell talk a little bit? Yeah,

    50:46

    I think there's Yeah, I'll provide a little bit of context and you know, be pretty transparent about it. I think one, in an organization like ours, if money is your primary motivator, we can't compete. Like it's just we're not going to be able to compete. And so what we look at is like, Okay, how do we create the right environment that attracts the right type of people, there still needs to be that upside over time. And like, we all want our lives to move forward. So we really map out like, Okay, how do we get that path rolling. And we can't, sometimes we can't control the timing of that, and we're pretty transparent about that, like, you know, as the company grows, then we can continue to, you know, improve people's, you know, sort of financial incomes off of it. So we tend to hire a lot of people that are, you know, really passionate about art or design, because they love them what they do. The other thing is like culture isn't like a static thing. And so, you know, and I think if you interviewed any employee that's been here for, you know, a while they would, and they were being honest, they would, they wouldn't say like, oh, yeah, it's always been great. It wasn't like, oh, yeah, those were the dark years or something, right. But, um, but I think like, in anything, right, like, if you just pretend that things are always good, and like stuffs ours flowing, like in a really positive way, then you're lying. And the last thing people want, when they're like, looking for a leader is one that won't tell the truth, you know, like, they want you to just be transparent on it. So like, I've had one on one conversations, where I'm like, yeah, like, stuff isn't really that good right now, or we have these issues where like, the mood and the energy, and it's off, and we address that, and we, we work through that. And it also doesn't like, it doesn't change on a dime, like you really need to figure out, like what's causing the challenges where the tension is happening, or, you know, we're pretty disciplined now, if the people are the right people, so if we have somebody that's like, really not the right person, our approach is, we give them the opportunity to change, right? Like, they got to be coachable to like, what what the organization needs and what the teammates need. And then if they don't evolve, then that's when they made the decision that they don't fit. And so, you know, when we've had to grow the organization dramatically, or pivot it, we go through a process, where I present what that looks like, I have meetings with pretty much everybody in the company, and then I let them know, and then I let them know that they, my expectation is that they get on board. And it's not even my expectation handmades expectation is that they get on board. And when they aren't, then I tried to go through a process to work with them on that. And then a lot of times, people self select, that's what I call. So essentially, they say like, this isn't for me, right? And they end up becoming like way happier, like in whatever they do, you know, a lot of I'll stay, I'll keep in touch with them. It's like, six months later, like, I'm like, the happiest I've ever been. And I became a photographer. And I'm like, That's awesome. You know, like, that's, that's your calling, right. And then I think the other thing is, like, as far as like, really making sure everybody feels like they're part of building something, right. And so we really share that energy. And we, I mean, we have call outs like, every other week we do like all hands meeting like, every time there's like a call it like so and so they did this, it was awesome. And it really worked, right or we we highlight how people collaborate across something, to keep the promise the customer or like make an experience better. We also provide like, you know, transparent financial management. So that doesn't mean follow up and book. But I show a lot of numbers like you, you can see, like, more or less top to bottom, everything that's happening with the business. So like when you think like, you know, I'm like, you know, buying my yacht and the Riviera or whatever, like, you know, the the numbers you see tell you that that's not actually what's happening, what's actually happening is like, we're doing okay, we're taking a ton of risk. we're reinvesting super heavily and like I'm gritting my teeth a little bit, but I feel confident we're gonna make it right. So like, then now the story like all lines up, and then you have a really firm understand when you're walking in these doors every day, where you're going to contribute and what your team is relying on you to do for your contribution for the organization. So we talk in terms about like, what are you contributing to organization, what's your role? And how are you helping build what we're creating together? And so, language is really important. Making sure people are bought in another thing, like, you know, as long as it's typically a lot of small things. I created a fun committee because I was like little bit fatigued of like throwing all the parties at this point. Ain't, you know, like 12 years in. And I just felt like I wasn't doing a good enough job. And so Chris is on the fun committee. She's a rock star. So anyway, I talked to one of my other colleagues who's on leadership team, I think we need to create a fun committee, this is a little seed, we need to plant, let's see if it takes up. And I totally forgot. And they do the coolest stuff like way cooler than I could ever imagine. And they have the energy for it, where I was just like, I don't have the time or energy for this, and I'm getting resentful, because I'm like, I'm burnt out, you're got a million things and trying to make sure everything works. And then I'm like, you know, you like plant the seed, you give people enough room to express themselves through it, and they like, do a way better job than you could ever do. So that's like, the secret sauce is like, you know, figure out what people are passionate about. And like, give them enough room and like, get out of the way. And like Tom where the barriers are. And then just like your job is to go work and remove the barriers. And so we start operating in that mode, and you like really are honest, like I've had some really tough conversations with a lot of people in this company, and I'm not scared to do it. And like, I'm also actively asking them to be honest with me and let them know, like, you know, if you do it in a way that's kind, it can be like, you know, pretty much a punch in the face. But if you do it that it's like kind and you're like you're doing in a way that you're not trying to like hurt my feelings, like I'll receive it, I'm not going to say anything in the mall, because I gotta reflect on it. But I'll actually like receive it and try to improve. And I'll like, reflect, and usually I'll come back to that person say, hey, you know, I reflect on that. And here's what I thought, right? And I'll usually have something I'm like, you know, your this part, I think is right, I'm actually working on that. And so like, if you're not doing as if you're not doing the work as a leader yourself, like, you know, it's hard to get people to really buy in. So I think it's a lot of small things. And it hasn't always been pretty. I mean, there's been a lot of learnings, a lot of kind of resets a lot of like trial and error. And, you know, we're all about like, just continuously improving the journey, you know?

    Mark D. Williams 56:41

    Wow, that's very impressive. One of my questions is, you obviously, were very talented glassblower, you traveled, you came back, you teach you started, you're now the sales person that also cooks a little bit, but you stopped cooking, I think you need to bring that back and have a personal chef at your pitches, because go over? Well, my question is, as well now, what is your daily? What is your day look like? Are you still blowing glass? Are you more when you really dove deep into essentially you are the CEO and you are the account, and you've learned all of those things? Now, what is your place in the company? Yeah, so

    57:14

    I think like, when you're building an organization, or if you lead an organization, it's really important to have at least be knowledgeable enough in each area. So that you can kind of help make informed decisions and then listening your people. So like, you know, like probably gonna be on like a test. And most of the areas, you know, I'm not an expert, but I can like pass. And so that helps me interpret and then be able to connect all the dots and be able to anticipate well, so I stopped blowing glass as my my, like, professional role back in like 2015, which was actually really hard for me, because my identity was a glassblower at the time, and I still it's a portion of my identity. But now I'm like older and maybe a little wiser. So like I understand can be a complex identity, right? But it was really hard because like from the time I'm 18 I'm like I'm a glassport That's my meaning in life, like, you know, and so I had to, like, go through a process of like, what does that mean? And will I be happy and, and really, like, what I felt like at the time was that it was my responsibility to put the community first. And to do so I have to do whatever is needed to be able to get us to the next spot to continue to create opportunity or provide stability for people. And so that means I had to stop blowing glass because there's people that can do that job. And I got to move on, which was probably the hardest thing in the entire history of the company for me. And so there was a period of about four years where I don't think I blew a single piece of glass, which was really, really hard. And so in the last, in the last year, I've started blowing glass, like on weekends in the winter months too hot in the summer. And the glass floor is all make fun of me because like I'm like so soft now. And like, you know, like it's like really hot stuff. But so I started on glass this winter, and tried to do it commit to doing it once a week and I'm making artwork and so I'm less worried about like, how do I sell this, but more like, Alright, I need an outlet. And it actually helps me a lot with a lot of things in the business because of meditative process. And a lot of stuff kind of, I don't know how to describe it in the locks itself, you guys probably all have activities where it's like I forget about everything. And I just I'm so immersed in this. And also I'm like I come back from other stuff. And it's like, all sudden, I can think about it and solve it or whatever. And so I do that on the side. Now, I don't think I'll ever be allowed back in on a production team. They are like, so good. That they do it just like because they're nice people, but I don't think they'd ever like you know, I don't think I can really cut it. And there's, there's tons of people that you know, can do that right or want that opportunity are really driven and really skilled. And so now my role is sort of business development. I really excel in the business development space, I feel like because I'm always like thinking about the future. And then product my business partner job runs the product team. So I lead kind of the creative direction and vision of that and like that because it's like the artistry and imagining and And then working through the processes. And I have a unique kind of a unique set of knowledge because I've spent, you know, 10 years really working very closely with architects and designers so I can anticipate interpret what they want, or thinking about the level of quality. So like, you know, just little tiny details. And then also, like, you know, really spent a lot of time trying to master the process of glassblowing. And so I really understand the techniques. And so like, I imagined how we would make it as I'm like drawing it, right. And so I'll create sketches and then we have desires that turn those into 3d. And then they actually like engineer how it's gonna come together.

    Mark D. Williams 1:00:38

    How often so let's say Matt from plaid comes to you a local architect here, great shout out for him, he's does great work. He comes to you and says, Hey, I want you to do this unique piece. How often are you getting bespoke pieces like that? You know, you said 95% of your work is going to businesses like designers, architects, how often does that happen?

    1:00:58

    We say one of our mottos last year is finding our nose faster. And so sometimes, no is a good thing. And so we actually say no to almost all bespoke now, we still do some projects, but they have to be, you know, there has to be enough budget so that we get paid for the design, because like, no client is going to walk in and we go, Oh, it's a $15,000 design fee. And that doesn't actually get you anything, like that's just not going to work, right. And so the overall project budget has to be big enough that the design fee is built in. And so we're very specific, and then it really needs to match kind of like, you know what our core processes are, and, but it ends up, you kind of have to pick how you build your business, right. And so you can pick to be like a custom like lighting shop, or studio and do really well you can build a really nice business off of that. It's really hard if you're building the level of manufacturing, investment that we have. So we really have to, we have to really focus on designing around our core manufacturing. With that we're trying to continually design more and more towards like, you know, modifiable product or adaptable product. So if Matt comes in as like, hey, I really like this chandelier. But I want six arms instead of four. I want to four inches shorter. And I want it this other finish. I'm like that we can do, right. But if Matt comes to me and is like, Hey, I got this crazy idea. We still might do it right. And it all depends. It might be like this really prominent hotel he's designing in Bozeman, Montana, that's gonna like be a major deal, right? And I might be like, oh, yeah, we're totally in. And that's a real project, right? No, I'm just kidding.

    Mark D. Williams 1:02:36

    Let's be honest, that's only so you can go fly fishing. That too.

    1:02:39

    Yeah. So or if we can roll in like new product development into it, we'll do bespoke as well. So like, if it's like, we can then evolve that into like a product. And we're really transparent about that. We're like, hey, we'll take this on. Also, you may not see this exact install, but you're gonna see a collection come out of it, maybe down the road.

    Mark D. Williams 1:02:59

    And just because we could talk for hours, I just had something I wanted to bring up here real quick, just in basically as 2020. I just want to tell everyone in the audience that they haven't read some of your, your history, just some of the things that your building is capable of. So in 2020, you went to 100%, biodegradable packaging, you've got 100% LED lighting, 100% edible packing peanuts, I'm not sure why anyway, you all said 60% of the power of the studio comes from solar 100% of the scrap glass is recycled. You've introduced wildflowers on the rooftop for honeybees and 2022, you have a roof top water capture and 23. And you've got a greenhouse heated by a waste system or your waste heat is basically. But I'm always thinking about the future. So So I mean, these are pretty amazing. So just briefly, because we're running out of time, tell us a little bit about your commitment to is this just your longevity of giving back to the city kind of it's touching on your core principles, because these are pretty. I mean, I think a lot of people talk about being green or doing things for the environment, but like, that's like nine or 10 things that are like seriously actionable, and not only a great story, but obviously you found a way to make it work with your business.

    1:04:08

    Yeah, I think so we're all aware, we're going to have to dramatically change a lot of things, you know, like very soon for us to be able to sustain the level of, you know, kind of life we need on the planet. And so I've researched and studied, you know, I'm an amateur kind of like both like urbanist and kind of like, you know, naturalist, right. And so those are things that are just really strong passions of mine. And so then again, when I said earlier, like how can the business be an expression, I'm really only interested in like driving the business. If it does the two things if it takes care of the people, it's creative, and the creative is an expression it has to be an expression. That's a expression of like, what I feel like is important and the people that we you know, have show up here everyday feel like it's important. If you asked every one of our employees as in most organizations if sustainability or We're like, living a healthy life on this planet is important, like everybody like, yeah, right. And so I'm always like, okay, it's gonna take me like, like several years to be able to get there. But I constantly have to be showing them that, like, I'm making the decisions to try to do it, I'm trying to demonstrate the model that's possible. And so like when we, it took me about five years to get the solar thing figured out. And like, the payback on it, when I finally got it all figured out through multiple programs, a bunch of things and like, you know, like the scrappy, like solar, he's got a great business, but he's like me, he's like, told di wire. So like, he's got him way down in price. And like, we did a little the install, you know, like, just kind of like worked all the angles. The net breakeven was three years, right? And that, so here's some real business numbers, net breakeven, right, it's $650,000 system at three years, I'm like breakeven, assuming as a 4% increase in electrical cost per year, which it will be higher than that. So that's a very conservative estimate, my payback over 20 years is 2.5 million on that system, because we have super high peak demand charges, because we are cranking electrical furnace all the time. So when there's peak demand, we're like, at the top, like, absolute worst, you know, and so I get like, double the electrical fees back, because I take my load that percentage of my load, so nerding out about solar. But I told people like in our company, like, you know, when we started, I was like, we're gonna have an electric furnace that is run predominantly by solar, and I'm, we're going to do it right. And so if I, if I'm going to put that out there and actually verbalize it more than once, we're gonna do it. And so, you know, it's constantly figuring out like, how do you set the standard and one thing I would say to like, in my sort of awareness is like living in Australia, they're way more on the fringe, right? Like, their ecosystem is way more fragile. NARS water resources, heat, like, I mean, wildfires we saw several years ago. And so when I when I got there, I was like, my awareness level went, like probably 10 acts of what it was the United States because like, yes, there's a land of abundance. There's like crazy abundance here, right? And so like, water conservation in Australia is like insane. And just everything, conservation of everything. Because it's like, it's just everything's a lot more fragile there. So I think that was like, super ingrained in my mind. And then if we're going to use a lot of resources, A, we better be making stuff that in theory can last forever, right? Like, when you say it's like last a lifetime, while like, it should really last like multiple lifetimes, like, it's never gonna go bad. Like, we can place the wire in it. So that's really where it starts. And then if we're going to use all this energy, how can we start to reduce our negative impacts? And so I think it's like setting the standard and saying it is possible, right? And then also showing, like, where you want to get to and say, We're not there yet. You know, like, I don't have the roof water capture thing, it's like, we're projecting that. And, you know, if 2025, I don't have it, and I don't have a greenhouse, that's okay. And you can like, tell me, you didn't do it, I'm going to tell you that, like, I'm trying, and we're gonna get there, right. And we're committed to it. So we put it out there. And we make it like public to our team. And a lot of times we put it in our marketing materials, and, and when it is legit, we can say we do it, we publish that. And we say we have intentions or we're on the plan to we will put it out there because it like puts your feet to the fire. And we don't always win. I mean, you know, like if we bet 60% on all that stuff with the data that I want, like, I'm like, we're doing it,

    Mark D. Williams 1:08:09

    you're in the Hall of Fame, if you're 60%. Yeah, just because we're over our time. Just to wrap up a little bit. I always like to end a little bit on personal. You had mentioned even earlier, just your creative outlets, what do you like to do personally, just to unwind, because you obviously are spending a ton of time organizing, balancing a number of different enterprises, you must have some sort of a off switch or a way to recharge.

    1:08:31

    Yeah, I think the making art stuff has been really impactful, and for me, and been really good. And then I love to fish, specifically fly fishing. It's like the most immersive thing I've ever experienced, besides going blowing glass, and that's how I got so hooked on blowing glass. And so like, everything fades away with that, and then probably cooking is the other thing and hosting meals, you know, like and that that starts to just like make everything fade away as well. But, you know, over the years, I've really learned like, there's kind of this optimal level right, and you exceed this, you think you can exceed this optimal level of like performance, we'll call it and business culture. And what ends up happening is you like push yourself and push yourself and then what happens is you're actually doing more work by the like amount of time, and that optimal threshold is actually declining. And so like, people have asked me like, Do you sleep and like I sleep a minimum of eight hours every night like probably 10 If I you know, most nights and so I really prioritize sleep a prioritized you know, health and diet and then time outdoors time, not in the urban environment more like super urban here and I love it. But then it's like a kind of, you know, it's a balance, right? You have to both sides. And so like I would say try at least once a week to be in, you know, natural environment and just like observing and whatever way And typically that's like fishing, that's an activity where I can still have pursuit, because I'm not going to sitting still. But that that is for sure. Like a recharge for me.

    Mark D. Williams 1:09:57

    Now I can see that. Well we are going to transition to the q&a portion here for just a few minutes. And so maybe just for those that are going to listen to this later, I'll give up my mic, but then maybe just repeat the question so that our mics pick it up. And then I'll go around and hand this out. So does anyone have any questions for Jackson?

    1:10:19

    Square glass is your passion, you've had to divert divorce yourself from it for a while, focused on business. Now you say, get back into about once a week? Do you go into the whimsy, artistic, crazy, fun thing with glassblowing? Or do you stick with the light fixtures? Would you let yourself go? And finally get to it again?

    1:10:43

    Yeah, that's a really good question. So the question was, you know, now not working as in glass, like, as, you know, the core of my profession, when I get to do it, I'm doing it, you know, once a week, do I go into the whimsy and, you know, kind of the, you know, that direction where or do I stick more with lighting. And so I don't make lighting. But at the same point, I love blowing glass because it's, it's regimented. And it's, it's a it's a, like a meditative act, right. And so when I was learning, I experimented a lot, I did a lot of that sort of whimsical experimentation, and tried all these different techniques. And what's interesting now is that, that stuff doesn't stimulate me that much anymore. And I think it's largely because I explored a lot of that territory. And there's still more that's unexplored, but I, you know, I kind of got far enough in that I could kind of see where those roads go. And so when I work in glass, now, I actually want to make like the same form over and over and over again. So I'm making artworks, they're installations of one form, or a few different forms, and I'm making a lot of them. So for instance, like this, this year, in the winter, we were making the spheres that are sealed. And, you know, we would make between 50 and 70 in a day. And to me, that's like, oh, man, I leave that day feeling like, and I have two assistants, and we're like, high fiving. And like, feeling like, man, we just filled an entire kiln. And the repetition, we get into this groove where it's like, you know, two, three hours in the first hour making like three or four an hour by like, the fourth hour, we're making, like, seven, by the end of the day, we're making 10. And it's just like, I mean, you could almost close your eyes and music's plan, it's hot in there was 25. Below I mean, like, you know, so it's really about the repetition and being present in place. And then so, the, as far as like an artwork, I'm already I've already conceived of kind of what the the installation will look like. And then these are components for it. Other question? We got one way back, then

    Mark D. Williams 1:12:36

    I will grab your next Katie. Can you pass that back there, Dan?

    1:12:42

    Hi, I feel like this has been great. I have a million questions. I'll ask one. You say love to think about the future. And I'm wondering if you've thought at all about succession planning or any kind of thing surrounding your young guy? And I'm just curious if that's something they're thinking about?

    1:13:02

    Yes. So the question was, you know, thinking about the future, as a core part of what my role is, and have I thought about succession plans, or you know, what the, what the transition or evolution of the company is, like, you know, the funny thing is, like, I've thought about succession plans, I feel like from day one, you know, because at the end of the day, like I was a glassblower, and an artist, right. And so there is an individual listed component to that, right. And we talked about community, but we still have to have our identity in the community, we have to have our individual identity. And so and I think like my dream has never been they'll be like a CEO or and I think being a CEO is great. And I think if you can start something, it's awesome. That's that's never been like a, you know, kind of like a milestone for me. I think I have done a lot of research on it, actually. And I'm not there yet, I still have to learn more. I looked into Aesop's, you know, looked into a lot of different partnership structures, structures, where you can have a foundation on stuff. There's a lot of pros and cons with every single one of those. And I'm not going to get into all those if you want to have a conversation, but I'll share all of it. But ultimately, I can tell you what the succession is not necessarily for me. But what what is important in succession, is we should have glass floors in downtown Minneapolis for generations, right? Because having people that create or make in a city builds character and builds identity for the city. And so that's part of the succession. However, that happens, you know, there's a lot of different roads we can take. But I'm not going to be here forever. And I'm also not going to be the one that's going to have, you know, the next idea or the next version. And so my job is to set it up well enough and give it enough kind of values and intention that we can make sure that that's cemented for for generations to come. How we get there, I don't know yet.

    1:14:54

    So hi, great partners. So maybe more on the business side. Well Somebody's cranium, what's a current situation? Problem focus,

    1:15:05

    something that's in the business ain't working to overcome right now?

    1:15:09

    Well, that's a good question. So, on the business side, what's a current problem challenge focus that we're experiencing, that we're looking to overcome. So we all kind of give a little bit of a broad one, and then like, kind of narrow it down. So we've been in about a two year process of up leveling our brand and our product offering. And we weren't charging enough for a product we couldn't. I mean, literally, I have people that are like, I gotta get them like 30% more income, because that's actually where they need to be for, like market rate, specifically, like makers, and we did a bunch of research and way behind, it was like, Okay, we're not charging enough for the product, we're actually undervaluing what we create. And so we did three price increases in the year plus, we have this thing called inflation is pretty intense last year, as you all know. And so it's good timing actually, like really ramp up prices, because people weren't like, why are you doing this, right. And so we had three price increases, and we like I mapped out the whole strategy. And two years ago, 75% of our business was in the commercial sector, when you start raising prices, right? Like those are investor projects, and those those budgets can only maintain a certain pricing level. And so we knew the business was going to have to change the core model, right. So I was like, We got to acquire a lot more residential business and business that the budgets are there, both residential hospitality. And what I anticipated is happening is, what I anticipate is that we would not be able to acquire and grow the audience enough as fast as the commercial business declined. Now, it was looking promising. However, the commercial market with what's happened in the last six months with interest rates, and just commercial office in general, across the country, it's there's a lot of uncertainty in the market. So that mark, that business has really tailed off much faster than our resident, residential business has grown. So you have so anybody who's like been in a position where they have to make very critical decisions for their business, you have these moments where it's like, you can tell you're in a really tough spot with your revenues and kind of your financial situation. And basically, if you evaluate your, your, your options, your best option is to hit the gas harder, meaning invest more heavily, which means burning cash faster, that's a really uncomfortable position to be in. But if you've been through a few of those rounds of doing that, you kind of go like, alright, well, you know, what the alternatives are is like trying to cut your way out of it. And then you you won't, there's situations where you can do that, and it'll work. And then there's situations where you won't, so you have to assess what the like data tells you and what your business and what it's like, and then it's like, kind of a gut check on top of that. So we're in a situation where like, basically, I like have to ski downhill as fast as I possibly can with like skis that are like the wrong size or something, you know, like, and so basically, it's like, in the next two weeks, I'm like already, like, signed off, we're doing it or get ready, everybody. And so yeah, that's basically the position, we have the team, we have the product, we have manufacturing, I'm like, okay, so all those boxes check, who do I want to? You know, do I want to bet against all this? Yes, I do. Because I believe in it. And so, you know, that's kind of a situation that we're in, I've been in that a couple other times. And other situations, I've done it where I've had to hit the gas pedal and like, you know, exceed the speed limit. And then I've also like, you know, hit the brakes really hard and gone, the other direction wouldn't have felt like it was appropriate. And in the few times I've done it, I've made it, I've made it up to the other side of both those. So I think for people that are newer entrepreneurs or younger business, that's a really hard thing. I don't know how you like, help somebody with that, right? Because like Mercedes was talking about, you know, we have email chains going back and forth about like, where are you at on this? You know, like, because you need a sounding board, right, you have a group of people that is your sounding board. And so that's a scenario we're in right now. And I feel fully confident that we're, you know, our banks can probably be a little nervous for a few months. But you know, I'm not because of my look at the foundation of building I'm like, this is like way better company than we had two years ago. It's like super strong, like we're ready to go.

    Mark D. Williams 1:19:03

    Just tell the bank to use a line of credit. That's really Yeah, yeah.

    1:19:09

    When the world was collapsing, and the pandemic hit, I just remember a really powerful image and campaign or push out about a votive and putting it in the windows of restaurants. Can you talk about how that whole story came to be?

    1:19:25

    Yeah, so the question was just around, kind of telling the story of it's called the ripple votive. So a cannibal being a pandemic? And what what's kind of the backstory of that so, whole world gets shut down, we're all there, right? In our houses, or apartments, or backyards, or wherever. And so, like, we got to make, I mean, that's like our DNA. So like, the worst thing that can happen to us, like collectively as like group is like not to be able to make and so we're like, okay, everything's on pause, like, what can we make that you know? It can be a kind of a gesture of, you know, hope or solidarity or you know, you know, just something that is positive. And so I'm friends with a lot of restaurant tours, specifically in the North Loop. I was on the North Loop Neighborhood Association board, and know a lot of chefs, because I've worked in that industry. And so it was, like, heartbreaking because for anybody who's worked in a restaurant or owned one, you know, how hard that businesses and how much people really want to deliver joy. And so like seeing these things on social media, one after another, like all these restaurants been like, We're close, we're close, we're close, we're close. And you just like, have no idea like, are these ever coming back? Or, like, you know, so much uncertainty. And so I was like, What can we do that like, we can create something to try to like, illuminate, you know, it's our world. You know, how important these establishments are. And they that industry was hit, like, by far the hardest, right? Because of just the whole nature of that situation. And so we had like, some extra stock of graphite, which is the material we use for making molds for casting glass. And I was like, let's make a candle votive. And, you know, let's, let's put some positive vibes out there. So we got like solar candles so that they would light up at night or whatever. And so I just started, like, you know, texting friends was like, Hey, can I drop one of these off putting your window light up at night, right? And so I did that. And then like, the news picked it up, or something I don't remember. And then all of a sudden, it's like, all these people, like, our sales team was like, we're getting like, all these inquiries, like, people want to buy these things. And I'm like, Oh, my God, like, this is like, this is like, it's far from like, a product thing that I like, you know. And so I was like, alright, well, what can we do with this, we got people's attention, let's raise some money, like, so I was like, Alright, who needs money right now, it was like, Second Harvest Heartland, I think is an amazing organization. And they were doing this campaign raising a lot of money. So I was like, alright, let's, let's, let's pivot on this. And let's, let's try to sell these things. 100% of the proceeds will go to them. And so, so I was like, Okay, how many TV stations can I get on how many radio you know, I was just like, basically, who how many people can I get in front of so I just like started doing outreach, and got a whole bunch of stuff lined up. And we threw up a web page really quick and like started selling them. And it was like so funny, because like our Shopify site, we had like DMS going inside the company that like my ops person is like, like texting me and putting in the DMS Would you stop going on the news like we are, like, we've already sold like, 1500 of these things away, like don't know how we're gonna make them common pattern there even. So, so then we ended up just selling tons and tons of these votives. I can't remember the number but it was a pretty insane amount. And we ended up raising like almost $30,000 in a period of like, I think it was like six weeks or something, it was really pretty quick and glassblowers are working. So

    1:22:42

    we're excited because they were like cranking out glass. And we we supplied the construction trades. So that was considered like they had this thing where you know, you could, it's part of infrastructure, and so we could have our shop running. So I was like, This is sweet. But nobody was buying lights, because like everything was just like that. The first like two months, everything was just on timeout. And so I needed to like have our team like physically making some so it I think internally it had huge impacts. For us to feel like we're we're accomplishing something.

    Mark D. Williams 1:23:12

    I don't know how to get an end on a better story than that one. So I think we're gonna wrap it up. And before we do just a few things, obviously, thank you to everyone here for making it possible. We really appreciate your support. And just a few housekeeping things. You guys might want to check under your seat, like OPRAH Yeah, this is like Oprah. Actually, I got this idea from my mom, every Thanksgiving, she hides something under the dinner plates at the gas. So if you have something under your seat that should be taped to the bottom. There's five of them out there. I've got three, four. I believe there's one over this way on one of the stools. So actually, it'll be I think it's the empty table. Oh, there it is. There we go. So if you weren't Nicole is over here, we have four glass candles for the winners. And then the fifth one gets a VIP swag bag from the curious builder. So.

    Mark D. Williams 1:24:24

    Late later this week, you're going to get an email with just a questionnaire. I'd really appreciate any feedback you can give us about this event, what you liked what you didn't like how we can make it better. I would love to do a couple of these a year. And so I'll take your feedback. So I know nobody likes filling out surveys. So I'm thanking you in advance by preventing you with food, live music and alcohol on your way out as a token of my appreciation. And lastly, all the digital assets other than the actual podcast will all be emailed to you by the end of the week as well. I believe that's right, Chelsea, is that too quick of a time? Sure. So that all those photos and videos are for your use whatever you want, you can post them you can keep them do whatever you want with them. But that's a thank you for all your support. So let's hear it for Jackson

    Mark D. Williams 1:25:17

    feel free to stay as long as you like the forges open again in a week and we're just gonna hang out and eat food and network and do our thing. So thanks again for coming.

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