Episode 37 - Prioritizing Your Energy: How Saying No Can Help Grow Your Business

Written By Mark Williams

Episode #37 | Ryan Jones | Stonegate Builders

Ryan Jones joins Mark to discuss his passion for construction and breaks down the multi-faceted aspects that are involved in it’s process. Ryan shares how his background has benefited his work, and what he continues to learn from the community around him. As many others in the industry can attest, self-educating is almost standard for construction. Ryan discusses the pros and cons to this, and why networking and building a stronger community is necessary to the success of your company. Ryan also shares his experience prioritizing his time and energy, and how saying no can help your business grow. Tune in to hear more!

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About Ryan Jones

Ryan Jones is president of Stonegate Builders, a local Minnesota homebuilder. Ryan has been in residential real estate for over 20 years, starting his career in land acquisition in Chicago before working in operations on the build-side in Minnesota. In 2016, he joined Gonyea Custom Homes to head up and launch Stonegate Builders, a division that specializes in higher-end production homes. He was the driving force behind the initial startup of Stonegate Builders and continues to oversee the operation. As a top 10 builder in the Twin Cities, Stonegate Builders takes pride in its communities. From quality craftsmanship and outstanding customer service, they strive to have a lasting impression after the work is done. Working with local trades and vendors,

Stonegate Builders is proud to be Minnesota made. Ryan moved to Minnesota in 2005 and is married with two kids. When not working he enjoys the outdoors, trail riding, hiking, golfing and being on the lake.

Resources

  • Welcome to curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host today. I'm Roy. Hi, welcome to the curious builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host. Today I'm joined with Ryan Jones, a president of stone gate builders. Welcome, Ryan.

    Thank you. Thank you very much for having me.

    All right. I love it. I think you have the best voice so far in the business. I was giving you crap before. He's got a nice, low gravelly voice. So this thing's gonna be great on audio.

    Yeah, this will be good. This could be a whole new venture I could kind of get myself into I think I think radio broadcasting I hate

    the twins broadcast, right? Just on the paper day after 40 years. He's stepping down as the day to day play by play caller. Well,

    you know, hopefully, if they're listening, and they like what they hear. They'll reach out.

    Do you know anything about baseball?

    Yes. I mean, I watch a lot of baseball, right? Like my son plays baseball and

    perfect. So can we consider this your audition tape? Yeah,

    I think absolutely. I'll go ahead and give the approval you can submit that. Well, we'll send

    it to the poll, lads. And we'll see where it goes. Perfect. All right. Don't forget me when you're on Oprah. Yes. Let's talk a little bit about your history. So in doing a little we you and I've met a few times, we met at CB USA conference luncheon deal here a couple of months ago. And but I was just checking your history is pretty robust. So currently, you're the president of stone gate builders. And I'll give you a space in a minute to talk about that. But looking back, I'm just gonna read this out for the audience. You were at Metro studies for 12 years. You're at Dr. Horton, in research. You're at the polti growth director of market intelligence that sounds like the FBI or spy agency, which is pretty cool. And now you've been the president of Ghana for two years. But you've been there for eight. That is some serious a building. Resume. Why don't you walk us a little bit through what some of those companies are? I don't even know what Metro study is. Yeah.

    So actually, right out of college, is when I got into Metro study, and they were primarily a kind of market research firm, who worked with builders, developers, municipalities is really all about land acquisition, land development, feasibility studies, product, pricing, amenities, everything. I mean, they were kind of like your any of your larger scale projects, you would kind of go to them to say, hey, we've got 100 200 acres, we're looking at, you know, mixed use of of, you know, detached, single family, maybe some attached townhomes, maybe some villas tell us based on demographics based on absorption, based on just overall market conditions, how you feel, you know, the does does what we're proposing, does the market support that? And then with that, what what kind of, you know, timelines, would we be able to, you know, expect based on certain price points. And so it was really a very interesting opportunity for me to learn all about different types of residential construction. That was in the Chicago market. So I'm originally from the Chicago area. And so yeah, it was one of those where I worked with, you know, the top 2030, builders, top 1020 developers, top municipalities, and pretty much every, you know, every month, I was working on a different land development,

    that's an embrasure. I mean, that's talking about some amazing data entry, because you're there for 12 years, I mean, that as you must have learned a ton about, obviously, where your current role. Now I imagine, as you get into these, you know, bigger regional builders and state builders, and even the Nationals, you can probably relate a lot to I assume you have to control land. And can you do even Do you still employ out of curiosity? Companies like Metro studies, even now, or you have the knowledge now, where you don't actually need to hire a company to do that?

    Yeah, I mean, now, because we're a little bit on the smaller scale. With stone gate, we don't really do as in depth of studies. But we used metrostudy, when I was at Dr. Horton hand at polti. So I was kind of leading a lot of their internal, you know, kind of feasibility and analysis through those.

    So what a lot of it be, and obviously analytical, I would assume, but you'd I assume modeling, you'd have some sort of modeling? And I mean, walk us through a little some of the like, what are some stats that you would look for? What did this actually look like an actual practition? Yeah,

    I mean, one of the things you were looking at was the demographics. So you know, does the, you know, incomes, does the population growth? Does the sub market that you're in does that support the product that you're proposing? The school districts, you know, future planning, and then also looking at potential future competition. So if another couple builders were also you know, had something coming down the pipeline through the city, well, that's going to obviously impact your potential absorption is Well,

    out of curiosity, was Metro studies only consumed with construction industry? Or did it do other industries as well? Nope. Just just new residential construction? Wow. Yeah. How big? How big of a company are we talking about? So it

    was nationally, we probably covered, you know, over the top kind of assays at the time I was there. About 65% of new construction in the country. So we were in all major kind of MSA is covering covering those. So you

    were working not just in the Chicago area, you would you were just based out of there. So you would take in so Arizona or California or whatever you would you do market research for anyone or specific to specific

    to Chicago, what I did is, we had kind of offices in each location gotcha, that they would, you know, kind of handle their market. Because, you know, the reality is, is every, you know, with housing, it's very local. And it's extremely difficult to take certainly any advice from someone who's, you know, in Arizona, about what we're doing in Minnesota, or what we're doing in Chicago. So to have, you know, kind of those boots on the ground, which is what also the company did is is every quarter, we drive the streets of all new developments, counting houses, basically, we had the plat map, you know, kind of on our lap. That's what I actually also did when I moved up here to Minnesota to open up the division. So that was that those old Hudson roadmaps when I moved up here, I had those old

    are they in every state? I don't, I don't know. So for those that are probably below the age of 35, or 30, they would know that you guys know what Google is, before Google, there was this thing called the Hudson maps, right? And you get them at your local gas station, and you'd flip through them. And they had, I don't know what the segment of you could get macro and micro details. But I sometimes now wonder, like, it's so easy to get to places, right? And, you know, every once in a while, they'll go the wrong way, on a on a GPS or whatever, because you're mindlessly not even thinking about it. But back in the day, and you really needed those things to know where you're going. Yeah,

    I mean, I would have, again, even coming into a new market when I moved up here. Um, and that was, I was that was everything everywhere I was going it was all marked up, I had my little developments on there, you know, and we were driving, again, the when I moved up here to do it, you know, 13 County, MSA. So when I was up in I see auntie County and she saw I go out drive and new developments and coming into the neighborhood with the with the plat map that I got from the county, and literally marking like this house is under construction. This is a vacant lot. You know, this is a house that's lived in Wow. And all of that data was was input into a program that that we were able to use to help do our market research is

    super fascinating. Before that, I saw you had went to school for business. I mean, how did you get why construction? Did you have any family in construction? What What made you interested in construction? Yeah,

    you know, my, my, my old man was was on the kind of construction lending side of stuff and, and work for banks, and finance a lot of the project bigger projects in Chicago. And so as a kid, you know, it's one of those where I was always in the car or driving through projects. And he's talking about, you know, oh, yeah, we did this one. And we did that one and talking about all the different builders and developers. And so it's just kind of something I was always used to was driving, driving, you know, residential developments.

    I mean, that reminds me, it's I'm obviously we're both very passionate about construction. We've been in it for a long time. And I think there's so many opportunities for, you know, anyone, but I'm thinking of young kids of America, right? You know, the American Dream is often tied to, you know, homeownership and building of homes. But I think like, there's kind of a place regardless of what your interest or skill set is, like I was saying about your dad, right? So he's, you know, he's into lending Well, unless you have money, or US people can lend you money, or borrow money or mortgage and all these different things. You can't build something. And so that's just one part. I think a lot of people would think of a banker as part of a builder, but they're a huge part of building. Huge and and then, you know, obviously, you have, you know, architects and designers, and then obviously, you know, our trade partners who without them, we can't build anything. Yes. And so we've talked a lot about that on the podcast, and I think it's really important, but I haven't thought until you just said it that you know, actually having a banker, I thought that I really want to work even with Minnesota Housing First, with James Vongole there. We've talked about doing kind of a high school tour of getting like, now I'm going to add a banker, but I have like a banker, mortgage officer, you know, a builder, a designer and architect, you know, a framer, he could just be really cool to represent all aspects of the industry. And now with obviously social media and marketing. I mean, you could, you know, there's huge upside. I mean, really, it's just a business that just happens to be building homes, right. So that means it can really fit any interest or any career path, if you wish.

    Absolutely. So and obviously all of them are extremely critical to us getting to the to the finished product. I mean, obviously without the financing. You know, none of us are even able to do what we do Right.

    Now, how So what brought you to Minnesota?

    So the company that I was working for in Chicago Metro study was looking at expanding into the Minnesota market. And I think, you know, I think I was, you know, benefited from already been in the Midwest and in the cold climate that they probably couldn't get many other people who are down in Florida and Texas and Arizona markets to move up here to open up an office, but they figured the the young kid from Chicago, it's probably comfortable enough with cold weather that we could probably talk him into it.

    It's so funny when people talk about that. I mean, obviously, you're from Chicago, I'm from Minnesota, but you know, people talk a lot about the weather. But like, when you're born here, I honestly don't even really think about it, right? People talk about all the time, it's like a barrier to entry, but I won't even have the perspective. In fact, it's a barrier for entry for me to go south. Yeah, you know, I do not want to go somewhere between like April and September, I do not want to go further south. Plus, it's the beautiful time here.

    Yes, exactly. So you know, I moved, I moved up here in 2005, okay, and then kind of launched the division here, and kind of built that up, and then really wanted to, you know, kind of shift from the land. And the development side over to more of the operation side, I really wanted to be on the building side versus, again, kind of the land side. And that's when I took a position with Horton spent about two years, they're great, great organization, very disciplined. They know what they're good at. And they do it very well, on a very large scale. I had some great people in that organization that I worked with that again, really kind of very well, I was very fortunate to learn a lot about the business, the scalability of production building, which has has served me, you know, to what I'm doing today.

    I mean, honestly, it's one of the most things I'm most excited even talking to you about. But obviously, compared to 40, in the Lunars, you're a small fish to them, right? I mean, they're for sure 1000s of units a month, probably across the United States. But the point is, is like when you get to scale. You know, I'm a company of five. So I'm very small. I mean, we have a lot trade partners, obviously. So let's call it 100. But you know, you go to a Cambria, they have 2000, you know, your Pella, or a Marvin or any of these big manufacturing companies. It's just because it's not what I do. I kind of get enamored by things I'm not really in, but I appreciate the business side of it. And I'm just like, wow, this is an operation, just the amount of people in organization to make this all work. I'm kind of enamored with it sort of just like one tip off my hat and clap a little bit. But you know, even hearing you talk a little bit just briefly about Dr. Horton. And I'm just thinking the same thing like, wow, I just can't imagine producing that many homes. Yeah, and just the scale of organization. So you felt like you learned a lot during that time?

    Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, again, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be where I'm at, without having that opportunity, and having the people that were there to, you know, kind of help me understand a lot of that. And, you know, that's really where, you know, all comes down to, you know, one's kind of success is, is, you know, who your influences are, who you have an opportunity to learn from and be surrounded by. And I've been very fortunate, you know, through all of my career to really be surrounded by some great people, you know, that have have have really, you know, helped, you know, bring me along, and, and, you know, help push me into kind of learning more and, you know, taking advantage of opportunities now,

    that's great. So, then you went to polti, for Director of market intelligence, that sounds very, very, you know, NSA,

    yes, for sure. It was extremely important now. You know, so this, they are also polti as an organization are very analytical, very research driven as a company. And I had a friend that I had kind of come up in the business with, you may know, Jaime Tharp, who's the president, she's president of polti. Now, she wasn't at the time. But she was actually the vice president of sales at at polti. But she was over there, and they were looking for this position. And I, you know, in kind of, you know, the desire to continue to learn and grow. It's good to have experiences in different organizations. Yeah. And so there was a huge difference, even though polti and Horton, you know, essentially, to the consumer may look like very similar, you know, they're producing similar style homes, similar price points, similar product, you know, they were definitely at the time I was at both of them run very differently, and which was great. I was only at polti for about six months. It was not my kind of style. ale. But I learned a lot about kind of a lot of the research, a lot of the discipline, a lot of the metrics and really that fed into what I'm already what I'm using today a lot in regards to dashboards, to how to run the business. And

    when you say dashboards, you're talking about, like specific KPIs, or what do you mean by dashboard? Yeah.

    You know, obviously, one of the challenges as you become bigger and scaling stuff is keeping track of where you're at throughout the lifecycle of, you know, your your build process on the front end, soft cycle through the hard cycle through all the different stages of construction, not saying it's any easier with, you know, four or five homes, but on a scale to do at 90 throughout the course of a year. You know, it's tough to keep all those moving pieces kind of going. And I

    mean, actually close to home right now, we're trying to develop our own KPIs. It's been long overdue, and I've had some that I just didn't officially call them KPIs, or am I a little score sheet? Out of curiosity, when you you're on a much bigger operation? Plus, you've seen these others? How big? So let's leave both these for example, how big would their dashboard be in HR, I say, you know, like, let's just say KPIs hold for those, you know, key points of interest for those that don't know what a KPI is out there. But basically, it would just be what a one page sheet, five items, three items, 10 items, like how is it each department walk us a little bit through what you've seen with the bigger companies, and maybe even how you've employed them, you know, with your own?

    Yeah, I mean, I think the ones that you find most successful ours, if you can get everything on one page, you know, to kind of have all your key metrics that are there so that at any given time, you're looking at all the information that you need. And then it's really just the, you know, the kind of supporting documents behind it to kind of that rolls up to the data. And that that that really is what I saw at polti was really what you know, kind of opened my eyes to that is in our weekly meetings, we'd all get our weekly update with all the numbers. And you know, that was what we went through. And so we were very, he was very disciplined on on staying on top of all of that, and that's really what I've been able to incorporate in with with stone gate. When I when I started there, and we launched stone gate builders.

    Well, just because I think it's interesting for those to hear, like, what would be let's say, your top five? Or what do you find most valuable for your KPIs? Yeah,

    you know, one, you know, we're always looking at at at margin, gross margin, certainly, in ours, because we're, you know, pre priced. So one of the big things that is a challenge with that is, is you know, you're setting your pricing on all your stuff as you're selling it. And of course, you're not building it, you know, finishing building it for, you know, six to nine months after sort of really kind of make sure that you have full control of your costs and what you're starting at in terms of your starting gross profit. To really then what your ending gross process,

    you know, a little difference between us, I assume you're doing fixed pricing on your homes. And I personally, I do mostly cost plus, so are you? How often are you checking your KPIs? Is it every two weeks, once a month? How often are you

    every two weeks, we run a report, you know, so we have all of our we're in builder trend. And we have all of our jobs in builder trend. And we have I know you guys use builder, as well. And we really rely on on, you know, the custom fields in the job that we can add and kind of create, to where we're filling in a lot of the dates in terms of, you know, you know, first design meetings when, you know, second design meeting 100, you know, selections are 100% approved, you know, out for POS you know, dig date, and then every single, you know, part in this in the schedule for for, you know, tracking purposes so that we can really kind of see our schedule, our adherence to that schedule. And then the soft cycle and hearts do

    the nonferrous Meredith buildertrend We've used it now for a little over a year. And obviously, they have phenomenal marketing on top of it. But you know, like the bigger guys like Dr. Horton and polti Would they have their own custom software? Or would they be or without their custom

    software? Yeah, they have their own internal that's obviously all for their businesses. And for for you guys.

    Are you guys using all their financials? You know, their financial tabs as well? Yep. Okay.

    I'm just curious how that worked. And we tie him with QuickBooks. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

    I've heard like they bought co construct. Yes, you know, it's kind of interesting, right? CO construct bought CB, USA. And then they didn't know it, but then buildertrend had bought co construct, which now owns CBSA it just kind of interesting how these big companies work a little bit. You know? And, yeah, anyway, just total cost plus standpoint, trying to navigate some of the backend financials. I know, from a fixed bid standpoint, we do a few projects a year but most of our stuff is cost plus and so navigating some of that is a little trickier, I think, than the I don't know why it's a I don't get that dialed into it. So

    yeah. So that's it, you know, obviously one of the big big ones Some are soft and hard cycle is something that we track just to kind of make sure that we're, you know, where we need to be explained

    that. So that would be your sales cycle to when you actually construction starts. Yeah. What do you consider soft cycle

    like, again, one of the PAs signed to when we're digging? And so how do

    you how does that become a metric, you're just basing it on time. So you have a design contract in June and you dig in October. So you've got however many months span. Okay.

    And again, we have different you know, so we build, we have kind of four different collections that we build our East collection, which is more of our entry level price point, were 550 to 750. And then we build up to $2 million.

    So are you talking about the company is now gone? Yeah. And it's don't just don't get just okay. Yeah,

    our custom division ganja builds? Probably 2 million to 5 million. Okay.

    So yeah, we'll talk a little bit about them in a minute. This is really fascinating. So we've got margin percentage, we've got days soft, we've got hard costs, now you're dealing in between the two ranges, but you got east coast and west coast?

    Well, we have our collections, East collection, West collection, north and south.

    And those are really just names to break up price points. Yeah, you

    know, our West collection, our bigger 60 foot wide product. Our North collection is our 50 foot wide two story, our self collection, our our villas, so you know, this travel adventure. And so yeah, those are out.

    So you're just doing a count. So like, if you did it in the month of October, and you had, you know, three west to east went, That's how you're

    gonna break those up into each. So we know our collection, you know, kind of soft cycle time might be, you know, 30 days on a north, it might be 45 days on the West. We also kind of break that up by whether it's a pre sold, or quick move in or spec home inventory home. Okay, you know, because obviously, you know, when you're doing your own inventory home, you don't have a client or a customer to kind of, you know, with it a lot faster schedule goes

    a lot faster. Do you typically have all your selections made before you break? Excuse me break ground on a customer? No, yes. Okay. Yes, we will not dig without so funny. I think that I can speak for a while for sure myself, but I don't think I'm alone in this that for a long time, while really haven't been really for 20 years. And so I'm in the last year, year and a half or, I mean, we're not even perfect about it. But like, we try so hard to have all the selections made before we start but you know, clients get so excited. And unfortunately, you know, I guess I'm good at sales. So I do get them very excited. But then to get them excited to get into arbitrage or get into design. And you know, my poor production team, you know, they're constantly like, Mark, you can't let us start, right until it's done. And I agree with him. I've heard the analogy of like, trying to build an airplane while it's flying. And like, you know, why do we think that's a good idea, right? You know, speed, speed, speed is not at the end is not your net speed is not actually faster. Right. So anyway, you guys have it wave figured out better than us? Well, I

    mean, we we're always learning we're always looking for, you know, ways to improve on that. And you know, we sometimes you know, we talked about discipline for sure. But you know, there's there's always things that we can be a little bit tighter and firmer on. So yeah.

    What others on your KB. So we've got four items are six if you break out your, your KPI dashboard on the east west, what other what else is on your dashboard?

    Yeah, I mean, our monthly goals are on their overall annual goals. As well neighborhood, you know, we're in about eight to 10 neighborhoods, so all of our neighborhood goals are on there that we update each neighborhood

    goal would be Hey, we have so neighborhood, Apple Valley or whatever, for lack of a better description has 10 homes sold that month. So it could roll up into KPI number three, which is east west, whatever, that's just another reflection of like, it's going to show you trends of which neighborhoods are probably selling better and

    what we have for a goals or you know, kind of projections or goals versus actuals to kind of see where that falls. You know, we have we have a broken up. Also sales by plan. You know, we have about 16 to 20 preset plans. So tracking that so we kind of see, you know what the take rate is on those sales by neighborhood

    and out of curiosity on the fixed plan. How so you said you had 16? What does it take for one of the plans to drop off? Like, you know, hey, if it goes below 10% This plan is no longer in favor. We're dropping it off our menu kind of thing.

    That's, you know, primarily each year we'll kind of look at and invariably the minute you take one off, that's the one they want. And we do that with we're trying to do that with our elevations as well. You know, because it's obviously on the the plan the blueprint side, it's maintaining them. That is a ton of time and if you're not taking it, if no one's buying it and you're having to update it and maintain it. You know, you're just you're throwing money away. All right. So

    when you're maintaining, are you regularly pricing those out? Like every month, every 30 days? Or how are you doing that you have 16 offerings. If you know I came in off the street, how quickly could you give me pricing on that home? If I wanted to sign? You know what, what would be? I'm ready to go. I want to build a house right now, this is a lot. I'm sure it doesn't happen a lot. But it probably happens a fair amount of time. How quickly? I mean, for us, you know, it probably takes us 30 to 45 days to price out a plan. But I'm not talking the fact like, Hey, I had to design this house. Yeah, it's a whole nother conversation. How long would that

    we sit down right there. I mean, we have a program that's already ready to go. Yep, we have a program that we built an Excel and we sit down with you pick your plan, your lat your elevation, it's, it's actually become quite the large spreadsheet and tool. And it's been been very successful for us for to be able to kind of price out all of our options we have. I mean, everything in price 100% of the house in 30 minutes. So your

    real estate agent is doing that internally. So they can do it right in front of the client and we just put it right up on the screen. Share

    right here talk through it like okay, you want a sunroom. You want a vault in the sunroom. You want your bonus room, gourmet kitchen, upgrade appliances,

    that's flooring. You guys have it so much. I mean, that's just so amazing that you can dial it in that that quickly that great, how often are you updating your back end numbers? So you know that those numbers are accurate every month? Okay, there you go, too. So so let's say, you know, on the drywall provider, and so you have these 16 plans that go to how many trade partners would you roughly bid out on this kind of thing? You know, it's

    I mean, 3030 drywall companies? No, not 30 drywall company. Total? You know, two to three. Oh,

    you can see I don't even know if I know 30 drywall. Incredible

    overall, ask okay, all of our because you're getting your key you're getting Windows drywall, what big ticket gotcha ticket in allowance items, you can kind of fill in based on

    expertise or correct. Estimating. I mean, we have that totally makes sense. Okay. Yeah. And we do we primarily, again, we, you know, we, we do have great relationships with our trade partners. We've, we've been through a lot over the years, which is also you know, I think one of the big reasons for for our successes is obviously who you who you partner and align with and, and, but, you know, so we also are being aware of, you know, not asking them to do, you know, repetitive work every month on everything, but we do, you know, competitively bid things out, just kind of keep everything straight. Well,

    I was kind of thinking to like, let's say, we'll just pick drive off. And let's say, you know, the West Coast, the Malibu house. Yeah. Does that exist to Halloween? Oh, no, we

    use lake named Lake sounds. Okay.

    So the Lake Tahoe? There you go. Yeah. So the Tahoe, I priced that out, it's a $20,000 drywall package. You mean, what the, let's say, you know, XYZ drywall company gets it. And they would just check, Hey, have my numbers gone up or down? And they would either just update or resubmit their bid? I mean, should be pretty quick for them. Like if that material changes, right? Yep. And how long would those how long? Were those proposals usually be locked in on their side? Like 30? Days? 40 days? 60 days? It depends. It depends.

    Yeah, you know, things have obviously changed a little bit. I mean, before we were we would have much longer longer locks. In terms of stuff. And you know, we're really also, you know, working towards, you know, unitized pricing, what does that mean? So, basically having a unit price for every single, you know, piece of material that goes into the house. So every year, we know what the one one sheet of drywall is one two by four. And so we're basically then we own our takeoffs with our our floor plans. So all of our plans are in a system where we know exactly the count of everything go. So

    now. So basically, that's your suppliers probably like that. Because now you just tell them like, hey, I want 300 sheets of sheet rock, what's your price? They don't have to do anything? Correct? Correct. It's kind of nice that if you're wrong, it's sort of on

    you. Right? Yeah. And there's pros and cons to that, you know, again, once you get down to the unitized, it's a little easier to go back to him and just say, Hey, can I get you know, 50 cents off of this? And we can we can really get super, you know, super lean on those things when you own your own, you know, as opposed to these lump packages, right? Like, oh, yeah, you know, this will be 300 when really it's, you know, 260 You know, they're padding it for stuff. So it's been a big, you know, definitely a big, big project.

    Do you know, any custom builders that do unitization? That seems like a big task don't

    yeah, I'd be. It'd be tough. You'd have to have the software in the program and the time to do it, because it takes a while to trace your house. You know, you're in a tracing program, and essentially, you're tracing every single piece in the house.

    Does so how many estimators would you guys have? Um,

    so our kind of what did say more of our operations team. There's four Oh, okay.

    Wow. And so let's say I'm working on, you know, the the Tahoe house, we're going to west coast on all these today. They are doing do they do one house all the way through when they're tracing this? Or are they just responsible for just drywall on all the homes? How do you break up that workload?

    Yeah, I mean, because we're just kind of get started in that right now we just have them tracing the house, and then that kind of merges in another plan. And then it basically kicks out that again, you need 300 sheets to go.

    All right now this is I'm thinking how many people would have to hire to do this? Okay, not gonna happen. All right, what else was on your KPI? Are we done with KPIs?

    Yeah, I mean, you know, the, what we talked about are kind of the main driver.

    I mean, just because I'm always thinking about sales, I assume you guys track like, you know, calls or meetings? Or how do you track like, you know, your cost to acquire a customer? How does that work? Yeah,

    you know, we've started to get into, you know, utilizing builder trend on the lead side, which, which allows us to, you know, have a little bit more visibility into that, you know, kind of conversion rate. But, you know, some of that also is obviously dependent on the agents putting in the Yep. And, yeah, so we're still still working through through that. And, you know, really more right now, it's just about, okay, you know, let's just try to get in a, in the good habit of, if you have a lead, let's get as much information in here, and then start kind of tracking it through, you know, through that lifecycle to see how our conversion rate is, but you know, that that we do a weekly traffic survey with our agents that goes out on Sunday nights, and just kind of says, How many groups did you have through your models? You know, and then, you know, how many were how they come in? Was it drive by was it website? Was it? You know, because you sent them an email or something, you know, that kind of?

    Yeah, how many other curiosities what kind of focusing on the companies here, but on stone gate? How many homes? Do you guys building a year now?

    We do about 100 225. Okay,

    so very fair and gone? Yeah. How many would they do your sister company?

    Yeah. So they do about 10 to 12? Homes.

    Okay, so they're the highly so how does there any overlap, or someone will come in? And how do you know? How do you know which company is going to handle it? Someone comes in and says, Hey, cuz you essentially have your fixed pricing. Right, and the Tahoe, and I assume some of those plans can be semi custom, customized, or even full custom? It sounds like a little bit. Yep. At what point does that client all of a sudden leave stone gate and have to go to gunay? Is it price point or complexity, its complexity,

    it's kind of and you know, our agents, who are out there kind of working with these clients are more, you know, kind of veteran ones that really can, you know, understand the needs of what a client might be, where they're kind of leaning towards, you can tell by what questions are asking and how they're feeling about stuff. To say, you know, I think we want to put you in our custom, you know, I think you have some really specific, you know, needs or wants, and we think this is better suited over here. And then vice versa. And so, you know, obviously, we're all one company, we're just kind of separate divisions, where we want to be successful and both one so we're really kind of supportive of, of going into the stone gate side or going into the customers. I've seen

    a lot of builders do this over the years. And um, maybe this is a good time to talk about because I find it highly interesting. So Gandhi was the original company. Correct? How long ago? Did they start? Oh, there? Yeah. So

    basically, 1989 Oh, wow.

    Okay, it's been around for a long time. Wow. And through the years, they were kind of building in the 10 range, or what was it? What kind of numbers were they hitting? Yeah.

    I think anywhere, really, from 10 to maybe, you know, 80 might have been a huge range. On on kind of that, you know, and they've over the years have had evolved from actually doing some production stuff early on to then doing more of the semi custom custom stuff. And really, what what kind of brought on the introduction of stone gay was is, you know, trying to juggle 60 to 70 semi custom homes is extremely difficult.

    What was that? So, did they hire more people? Did they just do a division like so when this split how to walk me through like how, you know, for those out there that have fairly large companies, I'm thinking of a couple of them, and, you know, sometimes they just stay as one big company and I even no one was there in our market. Right. So Streeter, I believe, at one time had elevation, and my understanding, you know, it's like sometimes you know, they have a lot of architecture work, and I'd love to bring Steven on or Nate and talk to him about this, but because they're obviously during this time, but I And just from as a consumer loving their work and just being a fan of building watching, hey, they're doing it's like a branding and marketing exercise. And in I've heard before sometimes that when you have two companies that compete for the same buyers, you're sort of cannibalizing your own sales, which I don't understand how that works, because either way the customer is going to buy, so you're fine. Unless both companies somehow frustrate the client, and they go somewhere else. Yeah, I could be how I mean, can you speak a little bit to because they ended up shutting down elevation and going back just the street, or now I'd have to ask them to know, to actually know why that was, but I'm just kind of curious, because you guys have split? And it's seems like it's going really well.

    Yes. But we mean, it wasn't an immediate, clear, clean, you know, separation, we were, we're really kind of running everything together, and which, which at times could be, you know, presents some challenges, both to the consumer and to those of us internal. And I think, you know, just like how, you know, in any company, I mean, having discipline, having clarity, and consistency is what's going to lead you to success. And so over the last several years is when we've really kind of, you know, figured out what the right, you know, mix of how you separate these two, how you put, you know, certain people in the right position, and then just kind of define it and be be disciplined on that. And so, you know, I think yes, today we're in a really good, good place with with the separation. And but, you know, there was, there were some, you know, fuel challenges kind

    of reminds me kind of reminds me like, you have a twin brother, but you know, one person's into hockey and other ones into football and like you have both, you know, both identical twins want to have their own identity, I have to imagine that if I was in your position, like, I would support my brother, but it also kind of want to beat him a little bit.

    You know, there's a little healthy, healthy competition there. But, you know, I think the thing that that really, you know, helps with it is both. So John, who, who runs our custom division, you know, we're in the trenches, building out both of these over the last, you know, seven years. So we were working together, we're, we're friends, we're very much supportive of each other. So I want you both want to see each other succeed.

    Oh, 100%. Yeah. Like a family? Yeah. How do you guys have to compete for like, what are some of the challenges there? You'd mentioned alluded to that you're in a good place now. But early on, was that identity clarity? Was it the fact that in I'm guessing it's all of these things? But was it you're competing for the same resources? Like, you know, hey, I've got that cabinet guy. No, I've got that camera. Walk me through some of those early challenges. Yeah. And

    that we were, we actually probably managed pretty good. I think it was really more the, you know, I think on on both sides, I think it was what we were able to, and how we were able to deliver it to the to the customer. And I think the the kind of the gray area crew created some challenges as we were trying to stay very disciplined with stone gate and say, Hey, these are your set offerings, these are your set options. They would kind of be like, well, but aren't you don't you build custom homes to, like, you can do this, right? And then of course, you know, a salesperson is like, well, yes, we can. And of course, they want to get the sale, right? So they're gonna, they're gonna. And it just really made it difficult. And it was difficult for us to, you know, again, even stay consistent with our trades to say, Hey, this is, you know, we are trying to be very disciplined, and this is what you guys said, you're going to, we're going to do, that's what we're doing. We weren't kind of doing that.

    Right? How did you fix it?

    Again, really, just, you know, accepting and acknowledging the problem, you know, owning it, and recognizing that we just really needed to kind of separate and say, you know, this is stone gate and, and these are the set plans, and this is how we need to do it. And if you want something different from what we can do, then you need to go to custom. And I think once everybody, you know, really understood internally, I mean, I think some of it was was just internally, you know, we had this you know, some people just, you know, wanting liking the idea of doing both, and, you know, obviously custom homes are are, you know, they're they're sexy, they're exciting, they're big, they're cool, they're all these things. I'm not saying our homes aren't either, but production can sometimes be like, Oh, geez, boring production and, and, you know, it's like, but but we have to know what we're doing and both of them for them to be successful. And they're both extremely strong in and of themselves. As long as everybody is there. You know, someone

    I mean, ultimately, no matter how you're building a house of size, complexity or whatever, are building is not an easy endeavor. It's if anyone has done a DIY project themselves, they can relate to this better. And it's, it's messy. And, you know, I've used this analogy many times before, but you know, you're building even if you are building a home that you've built before, it's still a one of a kind that you're building outside in the elements. You know, let's say it takes eight months to a year. And you know, in your case, maybe, and you've got, you know, I think like Ford F 150. You know, they're probably putting off 100,000 trucks a year. And they have callbacks on them, but they're building them in a factory, the same color, same parts, built by machines, and they can't even get those. Right, right. I mean, we're dealing with people and weather and all and customers. Yeah, changing it. While we're even though you're trying to curb changes, I'm sure they somewhat happen to some degree. Anyway, it's I've always say it's kind of amazing, we get as much right as we do, because it's super, super difficult. With all those factors on top of it, so I I applaud you guys for setting, you know, some some boundaries, because I'm guessing that's when you really took off? Yeah, Yep, absolutely. So we're trying to bring the reason it's really close to home is, you know, we're trying to bring some order to custom homebuilding. And it's not easy. Because, you know, we're in the business of pleasing our clients client wants to, you know, they want you to jump and you say how high, you know, and so, you know, I want to build the pool. Okay, we'll figure it out. You know, we probably shouldn't have a pool on the second floor. But you know, if that's really what you want, we'll we'll figure it out. Yeah. And so by saying yes to everything, it definitely slows the process down. Yeah.

    And it obviously impacts their experience. I think one thing we've really learned over the years is sometimes, you know, saying no, is this in the best interest of them as well, you know, and, you know, part of our responsibility is, is delivering on that experience, and being, you know, kind of a builder of choice. And, you know, we want to educate them about the right way to go about building a home. And it's not just saying yes to everything, I

    just had this last week, actually, and it was in the best interest of the client. So we do and have done even right before COVID Cost Plus, and, but I'm thinking about going back to fixed bid on some uncertain thing on certain homes and certain price points. And this particular client really wants a controlled outcome. And I said, Well, the only way I can really control the outcome is if you make all your selections ahead of time, and we do fixed bed, let us take the risk and manage it for you. And at the at the contract table, they just couldn't let it go. They felt like they just needed to see everything, you know, open book, which is fine, we do a lot of construction that way. I don't think it's in their best interest. And not that they're super smart people and they definitely know it. But you know, we don't want our clients for I'm also trying to be in charge of their experience, you know, the person who's driving your cruise boat, you know, once you'd have a good time, he does not want you driving the cruise boat, right. And so now I'm a little concerned as anyone is in this situation that, you know, now they're going to be so dialed in on each invoice or each, whatever, which is their prerogative. And I know that. But I'm trying to deliver a good experience like we're, you're not choosing us, you know, to hat to build your house yourself, you know, you're choosing us because we can build an incredible home for you. Right, let us do our job. And so we'll see check back with me in a year for the Ryan Jones pardon to really Mark Williams therapy. So we'll see how it goes. I hope I'm wrong. But yeah, we'll see where it goes. Nice. What, from a, you know, your your past experience, obviously, in your Metro studies in the land? What are some of those things that you've brought to the table? Now with stone gates? I mean, are you You know, you mentioned before, you're not really doing modeling to the degree that you were doing for Metro studies, but how have you felt like those skills help you in today's market and Minnesota?

    Yeah, I mean, you know, we're modeling not to the scale, you know, probably that that was doing for those bigger builders, and just bigger pieces, I think, you know, again, really the dashboards, the discipline, the being proactive, you know, trying to make things predictable. You know, that's what puts us in the best position to kind of be successful. And, you know, I think also bringing in, you know, bringing more people along, throughout, you know, through the numbers, through the good and the bad, helping them understand, you know, how these things all come together. And that's been a big, big part as well. I mean, you know, with any of this, if you don't have the right people and the right support around it's, you know, you're not going to succeed, it doesn't matter. Yeah. And and we have a an amazing group of people, I'm very fortunate to be able to work alongside of them, you know, they really make make us look good. They, they all really understand what their role is they understand the importance of, you know, recognizing if there's something that needs, you know, some assistance or help or support and leaning in Non that and challenging, you know, we're always, you know, no one's afraid to speak up. And I think, you know, those are the things that that have really allowed us to move forward. You know, it's about progress, not perfection. And, you know, I think we've, we've all kind of learned how to move things forward in a, in a successful way.

    How you mentioned, you know, this idea that people on your team have an open voice to speak, I've often told my clients in the past that, you know, you don't want to surround yourself with a bunch of, yes, men and women, like you want to empower people to give their opinion. And if and explain why that, you know, gets the best. And I said, it's okay, if the designer and obviously, that custom setting here, but like, it's okay, if the designer and the builder, and the architect, maybe are not obviously, being respectful of each other, but I like it actually, when people fight for their ideas, because I feel like, you know, the one thing that isn't often talked about in custom design anyway, is that, you know, we're, we're asking for the client to give their opinion. And, you know, I like to, can I get their personality into the home some way. And it could be through the interior designer could be through architecture, even I'm sure the plans that people are picking, I'm guessing probably is indicative of somewhat of their personality. Absolutely. And so I think that would be actually be kind of fascinating of your West Coast, East Coast, North Coast and south like to see like, how does it fit into certain stereotypes and things like that? I would find that fascinating. How vertically integrated, are you? I mean, are you guys handling your own finance your own land buying and developing? Like, how does that work,

    um, we do have a land kind of division that went, so we do a little bit of both, we do our own land acquisition and development. And then we also have our developer partners that we just buy finished lots from, okay. And I would say, you know, there's pros and cons to both of those. And I think for us, it's, it's, you know, a company of our size, I think what we've done well is, is continue to be you know, a little diversified. And so to not have everything all in one. So we're not, you know, all self developing all of our lots, and then, you know, kind of sitting there with all this land when, you know, if the market softens, and now we're dealing with these, you know, rates where we're at, and, you know, maybe some uncertain, you know, conditions moving forward, you know, not not having to hold all that land is is, you know, reduces our risk and exposure.

    So you're a good person to ask this question, at least in the Minnesota market, for those listening that are in the state of Minnesota, this would be applicable, but like, from a price point standpoint, you're in a number of different price points, because your lowest is, what, five 550. And your highest was 2 million. I mean, that's a massive range. Wow, that's incredible. What, tell us a little bit about what you're seeing right now. And I'll just maybe lead with this, someone just asked me this morning over coffee, you know, what have I seen over the last year, and for me, personally, I would say, you know, last October of 22, you know, interest rates went to that six 7%, you know, things really, you know, just stopped. Now, that being said, it usually gets pretty quiet for interest between, you know, October and the new year. And then I would say, July, January, people are just getting caught back up from being on Christmas break. And so I would say that spring in Minnesota is the first warm day in March, your phone's ringing off the hook, you're like, oh springs here, and it's not a surprise. But anyway, for me this year, it wasn't till June, because usually a lot, we had a lot of work. So we were fine through September. But it really wasn't until I would say June, that all of a sudden the design contract started coming forward. And now, you know, that's putting us in getting a couple of homes in really late this year and some in the winter, which is not what I would have liked to do, but just kind of is what it is. But that, you know, my price point is kind of in the million and a half to 5 million or whatever range. What are you seeing in the different segments? In terms of what's moving? What's not moving? Give me some broad perspective of our of the Minnesota market.

    Yeah, and I would say for us, and some of this is certainly a product of locations of where we are in. But we've seen, you know, pretty consistent across all of our price points in this past year.

    So they've been same. So they're all all price points are tracking about the same? Yes.

    For us. Okay. Again, I think the variable certainly being is is the locations of each of the different product and the price points, those are in that we have stronger sub markets that might be doing well regardless of what the market conditions are. And so some of that plays into so what you're saying, Well, I

    guess I have a two fold question follow up here. So let's just use an easy number 100. So if you build 100 homes last year, you are looking at the same rate of homes being sold in a calendar year. So what you're saying that you did the year before. So if you did 100 Last year, you're gonna do 100 this year. Yeah.

    I mean, that's kind of a rough, pretty consistent, pretty consistent. Yeah.

    What I was getting at more is like, is there different segments within that that are higher or lower? You're saying that you segment is roughly the same as it was the year before as well. Um,

    yeah, I'd say it's about the same in terms of that. I mean, you know, our kind of our north and our West collections are a bigger part of our, you know, probably make up greater than, you know, probably 60% of our sales are just in those two. And really, our East collections more most more recently introduced this year. So it's been a much smaller section of it. But our villa or self collections, we, you know, at any given time, we really have one true Villa neighborhood. So it's it's not as though we have three or four that are allowing us to produce 30% of our, you know, activity from

    Okay. Well, I mean, that's great to hear. I mean, I want to ask the question, I was thinking that the middle range would be depressed that, you know, we have such a need for housing in Minnesota, we're at 90,000 units short. So I thought, man, for sure anything under 700 Still gotta be cooking along, although interest rates are gonna make that difficult. And then the higher price point range would probably be fine. I was suspecting your answer was going to be Hey, between 701.2 would have been slower than the year before. I mean, it's great to hear that it's, you know, I guess, staying pretty steady.

    Yeah. I mean, again, I feel like at every price point, you know, there's there's some demand out there. And I mean, certainly from from this market, I mean, what do we build, you know, 10 10,000 12,000 homes here? In the Twin Cities?

    I should know, the stat I don't,

    I don't know, even maybe even more. I know, back back when I was thinking it's higher than that tracking. You know, I think we were up to like 30 or 35,000. Back and kind of its peak. Yeah, we might be trending along, maybe closer to 15,000. Now or something. So I mean, us looking for 100. You know, it's, it's not that big of a market share,

    you know, right, right. No, I get that. But yeah, that's impressive. Regardless, how do you guys handle service? And I asked this question thinking like, man, do I start a little service company? Do I hire it out? And so you know, we always the tail was always a little brutal. Regarding I know, it's brutal, regardless of whether you're at scale or small, like meats, service is always a difficult one. But how do you are you guys doing 100? Homes? I'm guessing you have some sort of service department? Yeah, our warranty?

    Department? We've got two full time on staff. And, yeah, we've been able to kind of manage over the years with that.

    You do offer to other people outside your company, or that's only for stone gate. It's only for Estonia. Yep. Yep. Has there been any, you know, services, such a hot commodity, especially for the young, you know, under 50? You know, they don't want to do anything, right, you know, over I mean, my grandma's 96, she'd probably still be cleaning out our gutters if you know, we didn't steal our ladder. So it's like, this demographic thing is very interesting on what people want to do versus what they can do. Yeah, have you guys ever entertained the idea of like creating, you know, service, because you have all the skill sets, you have the people you could certainly scale that up? Or is that just like, wow, that's one more business, we don't need to run? Well, you

    know, I think any of these, you know, potential business, you know, kind of opportunities are things that we want to consider. I think, you know, my focus has has continually been to, you know, let's, let's keep focused on what we really do well, and what you know, at the end of the day, kind of pays the bills, and as long as we keep getting that in a good position and a good predictable, scalable, you know, consistently profitable growth, you know, bottom line and I think that we have the bandwidth and ability and we have the skill to look at those other opportunities, you know, but I you know, sometimes worry about you know, kind of introducing something because it's that shiny object that can pull people away and and then we put a bunch of resources into this and anything you're starting up you know, you you really want to try to get successful so you put a bunch of time and resources into it. And I think that can really impact you know, the the core business Oh, so

    you're starting a podcast Yeah. Yeah, that seems I felt like I just had my vision read through a little glass ball man regarding labor in house do you guys self perform some of your own labor? Is everything trade? We

    try not to I mean, a few little things here and there, you know, our PMS and assistance stuff we'll tackle but I mean, really, again, most of the stuff is is hey, you know, we've, we've contracted you guys to do this. And this is what needs to get done. So

    how do you handle jobsite cleanliness? That's always a hot yeah.

    Well, I would definitely say we don't have that figured out and if anybody does, I'm open. Please come help. Suggestions. It's it's a constant thing. You know, we're we're continuing to You know, we're really kind of trying to continue to look for ways for our field team, to, you know, have them be at their highest and best. And, you know, we are adding some additional support staff to really kind of address those things. That, you know, it's obviously a very important part of the business, but our project managers, you know, again, we want them really focused on, you know, building the homes, the big pieces, and making sure that the schedule is adhered to, and, and things are kind of moving along. And, and, you know, having to kind of circle back with every trade about sweeping and cleaning up is, is just not what they should be spending time on. So, but we keep circling back with the trades and holding them accountable and, and do back charge

    them if you have to clean it. We at

    times have I mean, it's a slippery slope with some back charges. And I think, you know, we've we've probably at times, you know, felt like, oh, man, we're everyone, everyone, now we're for sending it back. But we know that they've done favors for us on.

    And it's tough. And where I was going with this is I mean, I was a kid, you know, grew up on my dad's job sites. I mean, that was my first job, right? Sweeping the house, you know, and it used to be used to be, you know, used to be to get high school kids, we always said the best best sweepers were, you know, cross country runners or wrestlers. And so we always tried to hire wrestlers, I remember. And now it seems like it's a lot harder to get the high school kids, you know, they're so busy to, it doesn't also work. And it's not like they can get out in the middle of data, sweep your houses, they're in school, and unless it's a summer job, but we struggle with that as well. And, and, you know, maybe one, I have a couple of subs that are really good at keeping the job clean, but then the next guy and keeps it a mess, and then it kind of they either get upset, or they're like, Man, why don't even try to do such a good job. So there's a bit of a, I actually just had a funny idea when you were there, like who is amazing at keeping things clean. We need a group of moms. Yeah. And we need every every subcontractor has to list who their mom is, and their phone number. And it's like, you know, keeping them it's like, I have three little kids right now. So it's like, you know, getting them to, you know, put their Legos away and put their pajamas away after they change or, you know, make their bed or all these kinds of things, honestly, we have to talk to we need a mom group to tell us how to get all these messy boys to keep their houses clean. Exactly. Because the guys can't self medicate. We don't know how to do it. No, no, because it's not working. No, it's definitely not working. The only ones I know that have done it successfully are basically you have a full time labor that you've ate, and then they go up and I could see me if you had enough money in the budget to do that, why that would make a lot of sense. I mean, I would know if I'm a cabinet maker or a, you know, an H fat guy, and I come up on the job site, and it's being cleaned for me like that would I mean, honestly, that would be amazing. I would really appreciate that. And there are some companies that I know that do that. But you really have to know your numbers. I mean, essentially, you have to it's a cost job of a cost. So it is going to add to the cost of your home. Yeah. And I've had it before where I've had a client before asked me like, I wish my house was cleaner. And I said, Well, would you be willing to pay for that? And I said, No. Yeah. So you know, it's hard as a business owner, then how do I make a decision to do something like that if they're not willing to pay for it? Yeah. And then I've you hear stories where people win jobs because their site is so cleanly, you know? So clean that it's amazing. So I don't know where to go with that. Yeah, it's

    it's a tough one to solve for sure. It's constant you know, kind of putting it on the the onus of you know, your trades because the switch pay for it, it's in your scope of work. To you know, leave the jobsite clean for the next one. And so then you're kind of like Well, geez, my now I'm, I'm already paying for someone to do it. He's not doing it. And now I'm gonna pay someone else to come in and do it. And then again, you've once they see it, it's good, but then no one's going to do it if we they know we have someone who's who's going to do it for them. So it's, yeah, it's it's a tough one for sure.

    I've tried I actually have it on my schedule I deleted every month. I have it says it's a full day blocked out. This is Mark clean job site. Because like if you're the owner of the company, I clean the job site, it was sent a pretty powerful message, I believe in that message. The problem is I'm already so strapped with time. It's I can't possibly give a half day. So I have it on the schedule. And every month I like I say Delete. I'm like, I've got to go meet a client and so I always justify why not to do it. So I believe in it. But clearly, I don't believe it enough to, you know, to enforce it on myself. So it's something I would still like to do. And it's funny because I'm just my dad's 73 Now, but it'd be kind of fun to maybe that's a good idea. This is my new idea. I'm gonna put my dad on the invite. There you go. And my mom there we go. Yeah, the whole family will do well do the Williams cleaning crew. Perfect. Actually. That's There you go. I'm actually gonna try that. Well. Maybe if I tell myself I'll videotape it and try to do some sort of social media aspect with it. I'll be more motivated. That's true. What? So we just finished celebrating the 75th anniversary of the great homes here in Minnesota, which is the oldest tour in the country. Pretty amazing. Yeah, definitely take it for granted being from Minnesota but what does the parade you know meant to you? You know, in your career so far. Yeah.

    I mean, I've probably had a, you know, you get some love hate with the parade, you know, it puts a big time crunch, to kind of speed up and get things done and ready for it. And I feel you know, early on it was we were constantly scrambling in order to get everything done by the deadlines, get them in, get them finished, we were, you know, still citing the house, as you know, people were walking up and stuff and, and so it became kind of almost where I was like, ah, the parade you do all this stuff for that everybody, like so much work. And then you know, people to just come in and ask you what the paint colors are and stuff and but, you know, that was more probably, you know, if you look back on it more of a an issue with us not being prepared and organized and ready. And and, you know, over these last several years, as, as we've really, you know, through a lot of our work on our construction team and, and operations, you know, it's really become something we're more, you know, and again, it should have never come as a surprise, because it's literally the same, you know, Spring and Fall dates a year. Even

    Sure, it's moved over. Yeah.

    But it was always like Jesus shouldn't have snuck up on us. We know it's coming. But you know, now it's, it's become something that we're ready for. And we have our houses, you know, finished and staged and ready to go. And it's exciting. How many

    homes will you guys in a year. So for those not for Minnesota, we have our spring, which is usually end of February, beginning of March or the full month of March and then the month of September? If you're building 100 homes, how many of those homes will be in a parade event? Yeah,

    so we usually enter you know, six to 10 Yerlan per Oh,

    wow. That's a lot. I can see why. Oh, wow. Yeah, actually the most I ever did. And for small businesses a lot. I did five in one year. And it was it was a spring parade, a spring remodeler showcase and artists and tour make I had a luxury remodel and then a fall parade. And it was just like, I don't remember. I don't think I had kids that year, maybe at one one kid, my wife would you know, I think she might burn burned me at the stake if I tried to do that again. And that was too much. But to your point. I mean, it's a lot. I think, you know, you I really, it's really important to me, the parade, I love doing it, I love seeing the people. But it is a colossal amount of work marketing, and really to do it right. It just takes a lot of focus and a lot of energy. And I'm certainly thankful that we have the support of, you know, in this case, Minnesota Housing First, and really our peers, I mean, I love to get out and look at, you know, the other builders and get ideas, and you know, it's a small world. And even that the podcast, you know, now it's, you know, I don't have to go as a competitor. I'm going as a curious builder. Yeah. And I just want to just, Hey, how's it going? Well, what are you guys working on? What you're doing is I'm just a big fan of our industry. And yeah, we'd love to shine a spotlight on the people that are in it, because they're really hardworking people that have a lot of great ideas. And, you know, their stories need to be shared.

    Absolutely. And I do I know, James fogli Well, we kind of, you know, I've been in the business over the years together, and, you know, I'm excited that he's kind of leading things over there, and really excited about what the, you know, they can bring to our industry and group here in the years to come. But, you know, I think they've done a great job of just being consistent. And, you know, as you know, now with, you know, podcast or with social media, I mean, it's, it's really like it, it's something you got to do every day, every week, you know, you got consistency, people come if you're going to be successful, they come to expect it. And, and, you know, you've got to deliver. And I think, you know, housing first has has done that, over the years. And you know, whether it's been a strong year or a bad year, they've they've set it up to be successful, they've, they've run it, well, they've promoted it. And, you know, to it's no surprise that, you know, they're they're, you know, kind of, you know, nationally won't, you know, leading in that space, because they've really made it a priority. And I think we've all benefited from that 100% Not just, you know, from you know, the people walking through the parade, but just giving us something each spring and fall to kind of build towards and it helps keep us on track,

    right? I mean, it's creating markers in the, you know, in the journey of life, or I guess this marathon, right, you know, there's different mile markers, and there's aid stations, and these are definitely aid stations and kind of ways to pass the time like okay, yep. What's what's next and it's always funny, right? Because, you know, the pray just ends and I think the next deadline for the next tour, but I always, you know, I was now we do more of the artisan tours, because they line up better with our schedule, and they fit our brand, but you know, if I have a home that's going to fit, you know, I'll definitely be in the parade. And, but it's such a timing thing. You know, it's like to your point, it shouldn't sneak up on me. I've been doing this for 20 years, and my dad did it for 25 years before me and yet somehow you get that notice in your email, like, you know, first week of November, you know, oh, are you gonna sign up for the spring parade? Like, what we just got done with the parade?

    I just made the list after the big night. You know, kind of that next day, I was like, alright, well, you know, let's get it on, get the list going so that we're ready to go. And, you know, for spring?

    Yeah, excellent. As we kind of wrap up here, I was just, I was asked this question, you know, how do you how do you like to self educate? How do you like to learn? And, you know, what do you do to kind of continue evolving? Yeah,

    you know, I really, it really comes down to the people that kind of surrounded myself with, whether it be those that I work with those just in the industry in the business. And, you know, my friends and family, I think, as I've gotten older, it's, it's, you know, asking questions and listening, you know, and just engaging with people on kind of a real level. And I think, you know, I think you find those good relationships with people, and you guys can grow together, and you challenge each other, and just having good conversations, I feel like has really been the thing that's kind of kept me going and motivated. And, and when you break it down to, again, as you're seeing with, with probably this experience, which, you know, we chatted a little bit before, but you know, once you break it down to its core of real human to human, you know, kind of conversation, you, you really start to learn, you know, that, you know, we're all we're all trying to do the same thing, and we're all doing our best are trying, and we all have our strengths and flaws. And, and that's okay. 100%. And I think that's, you know, also what motivates me, it motivates me with my kids, in kind of raising them, and, you know, you know, just exposing them to conversations and challenging them and to be open and be vulnerable. Because that's when you're going to be able to learn.

    Yeah, I Yeah, 100% agree with that statement. I mean, ultimately, the podcast has kind of revealed that, for me in a different way to I mean, net, we use the word networking a lot. But I think you articulated much better in the terms of like, networking is just a way to get together, but it's the meaningful conversations and really the depth of the conversation. I think, also realizing that, you know, in business, you're not alone, because like, business is hard. Building is hard. We've already talked about how difficult building can be. But I think realizing that of course, you have your social media platforms, you have these things, and you of course, you want to showcase your best work, you know, who doesn't, you know, if you're gonna go, you know, on a date, you're gonna dress up and you know, look nice, because that's, you know, you want to present well, but that doesn't mean that like, the building part of it wasn't really hard. And so I think as you talk to more and more builders and realize, like, oh, man, I'm not the only one that's having a hard time, I'm not the only one struggling to come up with my KPI. You know, I'm not though it's it, there's a lot of comfort motivation, and some ways piece that comes with it, and realizing like, okay, you know, we're kind of all doing this together. Yeah, I

    think you kind of hit it with the, the piece thing, I think that, you know, you can constantly just get get caught up in your own head and, you know, scrambling and trying to define what success is. And you know, what, what it is, and it's, you know, it can be exhausting. And, and draining, and difficult. And if, you know, by talking to someone, you know, and getting a little bit below the surface, you get a little bit more peace. I mean, it makes you you know, you sleep better. You know, your next day, your business, you're clear you you can, you know, attack challenges. And you know, you're you're kind of, again, you're driven a little bit more when you when you have that peace,

    I had a good friend of mine on the podcast, and she had said for, I forget what the timeframe was, but a couple of years ago, she, someone asked her how she grew her business. And she said, I said yes to every opportunity. And I think there is a lot of benefit in that statement, I think everything is has to be taken with a grain of salt. But recently, her new motto is say no to everything. And I just thought it was really interesting and different phases of life that have led to some of these things, and she's at a better place herself, because and I just being someone that love has a lot of energy. And I love saying yes to the new shiny thing. And it's hard for me to say no, because I love saying yes. And I we have a consultant that we're working with right now, actually, Jordan Diorio she was on a couple episodes ago. And she had just said, you know, she challenged me between now and the new year to say no, to more and more things, and she's like, get super clear on like three things that you want to accomplish. And I think this is almost like, you know, we're talking about New Year's resolutions already. And you know, but the idea was that, you know, so many people have all these ideas and then don't follow through on them. So just make one you know, just start with one. Don't Don't overcomplicate it and it's as a business owner. I don't do this, by the way. Yeah, but I Ivan I'll use that input, I would actually strive to try to do that. I feel like this for right now one of the things I would like to do for my team is, you know, I kind of I overbooked myself, I over commit to all these things. And I feel like in some ways that my team suffers, because I don't give them enough time, that of me. And so one of the things that I'm trying to do is to try to create more space so that I can be there for my own team. And you obviously do that for your family, of course, but, you know, I need to be more mindful of that as well. But really, for my team as well, when I'm at work,

    yeah, and it kind of, you know, one of the things from a business standpoint, I am personally and I, you know, I try to remind myself, it's, you know, if you've read the book, the one thing, but, you know, kind of breaking it down to that, you know, kind of like, what's the one thing that I can do, you know, today or this week, that is going to have the greatest impact on other things. You know, that's kind of where you, you know, you put your, you know, prioritize and your effort and energy, because essentially, that one thing you do is going to help, you know, four or five, eight to 10 other things out there. And it's tough, isn't

    it funny how wisdom or age or experience seems to exemplify that more, you know, I'm not that young or that old, I'm just kind of in the middle, I'm 43 and there's so many times I wish I'd like oh, man, I wish I could go back to being 25 or 26. And I'm not a calm person by no one's going to describe me as being calm but I'm certainly calmer now than I was when I was 25. It'd be fun to bring that sort of mindset and you know, nobody can get a do over any of this stuff. But it is kind of interesting how you move along and you become I love looking at people and I've had mentors that are even my clients sometimes where you know, they've been successful business owners or whatever they are and you just kind of like you look at him you're like, I really appreciate how calm it seems like the people that you aren't that I find myself gravitating towards as like showing me an example of what I could or want to become or people that are like very competent you know, all those things, but really, they're just really at peace and really at ease with who and what they are and I don't have an issue personally with that side of it but more like like they're fine with like whatever I just did today right now is enough. I don't have to worry about the 87 things on my to do list tomorrow and I'm not there yet. Personally, I'm that's why I'm a work in progress there. Yep. Yeah. Well, thank you very much for coming on. Ryan. Appreciate it. For those that are listening. Where can they reach out and find more about Stonegate and and you directly? Yeah,

    stone gate builders.com is where you find anything on what we're doing out there and in the Twin Cities. Very good.

    Well, thanks again for coming on. And we'll see you at the next great homes. Great.

    Thanks for having me.

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