Q & A Episode 11 - Cultivating Valuable Vendor Partnerships
Episode #11 | Q&A with Mark D. Williams | Cultivating Valuable Vendor Partnerships
Mark Williams talks about the importance of building strong, loyal relationships with trade partners and vendors when running a construction business. He also emphasizes how these partnerships can provide invaluable support, especially during challenging times, and how they can positively impact the quality and efficiency of the work.
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About The Curious Builder
The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. WIlliams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.
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there's a great quote that says that act is the art of making a point without making an enemy you know it's not very easy to tell a client no you sort of have to redirect the question the best you can I mean essentially a fancy no and maybe that's just my way of doing it but it's not always easy because at the end of the day they're not going to be happy and you're not going to be happy so you're really it's a contract for failure [Music] welcome to the Curious Builder podcast I'm Mark Williams your host and today's
00:00:35 Q&A is from Mike Weaver shout out to him from mser tile looking for a few questions and he sent us this question it's what is the value of strong vendor Partnerships so I've been building for 20 years and I do talk a lot about the value of the Partnerships that we have and just the Loyalty that I've had to my trade partners and vendors over the years and I think I just now naturally trusted my people really from the get-go and I think it stemmed from seeing how my parents um generationally treated
00:01:08 their subcontractors I've spoken about that previously on the podcast in just how specifically uh my parents were both Builders treated the people that worked with us and it was never you know our business or it was never I it was always we and so I think understanding from very early on even as a kid that you cannot build a home it's far too complicated to do it alone and the only way to really build it as a team is to just trust each other and to truly value the partners that you have and I've
00:01:41 always I love sports and I've always really appreciated team sports I do plenty of individual sports as well but the one thing that I love about a team is seeing how they can inspire you lift you up and collectively as a team the joy seems to be a lot higher than when you're low and it's totally different type of atmosphere and so I think now looking back on my 20-year career and kind of thinking that maybe I've got another 20 ahead of me I I probably developed strong Partnerships early on without realizing how much it would
00:02:13 benefit me and I think early on it was trusting people that I knew would have my back so when I started as a 23 year-old Building Homes obviously I leaned heavily on trade partners and vendor partners that I had seen my parents develop relationships with over 20 30 year career as well and so a lot of their trust in me was really an extension of the trust that they had given to the previous generation and I didn't realize it at the time just how incredibly loyal they were to our family um naturally because of how we treated
00:02:48 them and then eventually as I had my own relationship with them how they sent that you know that that relationship changed and so I think starting a business with having a really strong uh trade base and subbase and just people that you can really go into battle with and um actually recently I was uh reading the story of David and Goliath again in Samuel and King Saul actually offered David you know new armor to go into battle and he said he put it aside he said I haven't proven these in battle uh so he picked up I
00:03:21 think five or six stones and went into battle and we know how the rest was history and the reason that comes to mind is you know when someone asks us to build them a home not that I can't entertain new trade Partners but I want to go and deliver what I promise and it's hard to promise and to deliver if you're using a lot of unknowns and so for me I'm very hesitant to switch trade and vend vendor Partners like there has to be a significant reason and I'm not saying you don't try new people I'm not
00:03:53 saying you don't develop them but I think if you're going to go into this proverbial Battle of building a home and doing it right like you really need to trust the people that are an extension of you and especially for somebody like myself I've personally am not really the expert in building I have said this before that I really lean heavily on the people that I Empower and the trade Partners you know my cabinet maker is so talented I could never know as much about you know cutting wood he calls himself a wood butcher I could
00:04:24 never know as much about wood and Cabinetry and what works and what doesn't work as Rich does and so but I don't need to because I trust rich I see his passion just come out in his craft and so I gravitate towards people that are really passionate and you know there are seasons of opportunity and I think there are times where let's say you are out there and you're a trade partner you want to get in with a builder or a designer or an architect or a builder I mean honestly this applies to everybody
00:04:54 um and it's just I like what someone said who called on me and said I I they were another cabinet shop and I've only had two cabinet shops in my entire career and the question that they they said is I want to be your I want to be your next call when your cabinet shop you know stops and I always appreciated that like that they were going to be the next best option and what I really appreciate about that is that you know I don't think anyone can just call somebody and expect them to get 100% loyalty you know I think you need to
00:05:25 understand that you are going to get um you know you're going to have to earn it uh one way or another and maybe it's when somebody calls you and you they you need to step up and I look at back now at some of my trade partners that that are there now and some of my most loyal people that they were just always there and they kind of work their way up into sort of my inner circle by their attitude I would always put a premium on good attitude uh and also quality work but really how they how they represented
00:05:53 our company and themselves with the client you know at the end of the day we are all working for our client both both in terms of quality but also in terms of the service that we're providing and as soon as we lose sight of that you know it's to our own detriment I've had a a trade partner that I was very loyal to for well over a decade and consistently I had clients tell me that they didn't care for their attitude and that they didn't care for how they treated them and I was really hesitant to change
00:06:25 because I was this person did such amazing work but at the end of the day their add ude trumped their ability to do great work and I think we also you know we we all as people have our ups and downs I've said this before and I really like the saying which is you know don't judge me on my best day don't judge me on my worst judge me what I do consistently in between and I think when people show up consistently those are the people that you want to lean on for your vendor and your trade partners and
00:06:57 specifically we learned a lot through covid you know the people that uh were willing to kind of go the extra mile or the extra 10 miles if you will to get the job done so that you could build in a very challenging environment like there are some very loyal bonds that were created during covid and I think when you go into you know I guess battles are on my mind or struggles when you get through a struggle together you are bound tighter sometimes um with a vendor I've had a couple difficult clients where I am closer to those
00:07:29 vendor partners ERS than I ever could have been otherwise because we went through a couple of years with really difficult two in particular difficult clients and because of how they supported us uh and how we got through it together and how they were so positive and really just understanding that you're in the trenches doing the best you can you know someone you can't how do you even quantify the depth of that relationship it's just a shared experience that you both had that you both had to work really hard to get
00:07:59 through and it's not always easy and I'm not saying it's always great but somehow by kind of struggling and going through it together go back to that team approach there is a deep bond there um you know I think specifically of you know Alpine hardwood they they've been a sponsor on the podcast from from the very beginning in various ways you know but Anthony and Adam you know it's not just lip service it's not just sponsorship like it is a deep relationship that spans decades and they continue to show up and have a
00:08:29 great attitude over and over and over again and I can think of many other of our trade Partners they just come to mind specifically and I think if you're starting a company or if you are a company um you know what I'm talking about there are those people that are part of your inner circle that have just continually showing up and have done a great job and there are some that you know skill-wise you might have to trade um meaning that sometimes your clients ask for something that your trade partner is either unwilling to do
00:08:59 or unable ble to do and so at that point you do have to look outside and try somebody new and and I think that there's a lot of value in trying something that's new but I you can also create a strong relationship with new partners as well because it's a new opportunity I think sometimes when you see people when they are given a chance they are really excited and they're extremely passionate to have that opportunity and they want to do everything they can within their power to knock it out of the park with you and
00:09:28 that's very valuable as well I think going back to covid too you know there's certain trade partners that because you had a multi-decade relationship with them when you asked for something you were kind of first in line and I think if somebody is always taking the lowest price or you know you know bidding it out with 10 different trade Partners there's no loyalty there and if you're always taking the low price then you're really telling that partner what you value you're valuing cost over anything
00:09:56 else and I'm not saying it's not important um cost is part of a value statement but for me specifically I value a lot of things more than I value cost I do value loyalty I do value quality I value attitude I value you know communication is probably my number one hot button and when there's a good communicator and have a great attitude like I know that I am fine being in front of my clients with those vendor partners and they not only support me but they extend my brand they're an extension of my brand they're an
00:10:28 extension of what I would like to be known for for I want to be known for being a good communicator for being loyal to for providing Great Value so in turn those are the exacts the same things that I'm trying to partner with um with my my vendors as well this episode is brought to you by Alpine hardwood flooring they've been our partner now for over a decade installing all our wood floors on all our new homes as well as our remodels and on a personal level Adam and Anthony Jen a lot of the owners are just absolutely
00:10:56 amazing people they've been so supportive of my career as well as doing anything we need to make sure that our clients are happy and they work so well with our other vendors and trade Partners at not only protecting their product but also ensuring everyone else's looks great so if you're looking for a wood floor or for a refinish I highly recommend Alpine hardwood flooring I think there's a lot more that we could talk about in Vendor Partnerships but the second part of this question was is why don't we allow
00:11:21 homeowners to procure their own products this is a great question and it comes up a lot unfortunately you know maybe seven or eight years ago it seemed like clients always wanted to supply their own appliances and they'd like to put it on their credit card so that they could get the miles uh or they wanted to buy their own tile directly because you know your tile guy would you know pick out you they'd pick out a tile that was $8 a square foot and they'd find it online at for $6 a foot but what they don't
00:11:52 understand we have to continually explain to them is you know did that include shipping does that is that Drop Shipping out at the front of your driveway we had one client once who you know against my better judgment uh actually this one owned a tile shop so it sort of like one of those things where you sort of had to make an exception but his own tile company he ordered the tile in a big crate showed up at the end of the street and my tile guy who normally is going to charge a markup obviously as well he should to
00:12:19 transport to check you know to vet it to carry it to bring it to all the rooms um was like well that's part of that's part of the markup that we put on the material and the person that had all the tile delivered only bought the material but had no way from getting it in on the front of the street into the house and I can't remember how we ended up working that out I think I think the client was maybe a bit of a of a bull on this one I think I may have split it 50/50 with the tile guy saying that you know you could
00:12:49 charge me hourly to get it in the house but it just brings up an example like that is something I've never thought about in 20 years like the idea that you would order tile and that you would not have it included to put in the house again that's one of those communication things because I've been working with the same tile shop for you know well over a decade uh or installer it was never something I ever had to figure out or logistically plan for and it wasn't right actually for the tile installer
00:13:15 you cut out you know let's just call it on a $30,000 job you know you cut out 125,000 of material and now not only did that homeowner not want him to make any money on that material he wanted him to do he wanted him deliver all the material unbox it sort it put it in every single room at no cost I mean that's just not right and so I think this that's just one example I think lights is also a great example you know because of what you can buy online I see it so often where the clients want to buy the lights directly and we usually
00:13:49 have a designer and that is one of the places that designers want try to make a little bit of money but you know they're obviously you know might buying wholesale or they might have discounts sometimes even you know some of the relationships I have you know we are going to get um you know Ambassador discounts or we're going to get some sort of a discount because people want it in our home but it's a little bit different so let's say you know there's a a company that I really like called hennipen made shout out to them they do
00:14:15 a bunch of hand blown glass um you know and they're quite expensive let's just say this light fixture that I like in particular is like four or $5,000 and typically you would mark it up now I'm getting it at a discount and um I would pass that on to homeowner um because that's just one way that I'm trying to get this product into the home because I really like the story that it tells but a lot of people don't do that and this the homeowner uh will often try to buy it directly and they don't want
00:14:43 to pay let's say you have a Cost Plus contract let's just pick easy numbers let's just say you have a 20% you know uh markup or uh margin uh on on your light fixtures or whatever you have for in your Cost Plus contract and they don't want to pay that so because every time time they see light fixtures or or Plumbing fixtures or tile or anything all they think about is not what they're picking they think they think of what you're making on it and so I think a lot of it is up to us to change the narrative and I think it's me sharing
00:15:14 stories like this like you know we have to we have to get all the light fixtures you know if the designer is getting them they're paying someone to open them up to make sure that they're not broken they're storing them so that they're there ahead of time and then if there's any warranty issues they deal with it no different than the tile companies if you buy all the material through the tile companies uh that are installing it or you have relationships like they are warranty that product I had a plumber
00:15:40 that you know they say that you know they're not going to warranty the plumbing work if they don't also get to mark up the plumbing fixtures and if they don't mark up the plumbing fixtures it kind of goes right back to that scenario well then how can they service a product that they never made any money on um I think like HVAC you know I've never had a client ever say oh I want to buy my own furnace directly no you buy it through the HVAC company and guess who you call when there's an issue you
00:16:07 call the HVAC company you know and they in turn have to deal with you know whether it's dykin or Bryant or lenux or whichever the product is that you're using they deal with that and maybe there's some extended warranties but um I I think it's funny that there's just a few a handful of products that people really want to go Direct on Appliance is another big one you know uh I think it's because people want to you know it seems less so now but people really want to get you know the credit card mile so
00:16:35 like well can I pay for this on my credit card you're like oh man this is just complicating things and you're also just changing the scenario the order scenario and it's not that it can't be done but you're also asking us to deliver you a product that's fast and efficient but if the client starts coming in and starts procuring orders we had another one where you know a client ordered appliances I can't remember if this was before after covid but something like that and um you know it was delayed it never showed up uh or are
00:17:06 the specs right so what happens if the homeowner you know gets an appliance sends you the appliance specs the cabinet shop builds his cabinets around those Appliance specs and then they're wrong whose fault is it I guarantee the homeowner is not going to say it's his fault he's going to blame you he's going to blame the cabinet shop and so I I think explaining this story to um to the homeowner and I I think this goes back to why homes are just so emotional I mean when you build a you know if you
00:17:35 buy a BMW you nobody says like hey I really want this amazing leather you know from Italy I'm gonna buy the Lea leather directly because I know this importer and then you put it in the car like that's not BMW is not going to go for that uh or or same is true of of um you know honestly anything you want on a car I mean even aftermarket products you are paying someone to install it um and so I I think it's just always going to be better service and better quality when you are they making money on it yes
00:18:06 and guess what they should make money on it and so I I think if people want to build their own homes by themselves then that's what they should do and if you're coming to us as a as a home builder and saying like hey I want to practice building my house and you're going to be my guide that's going to be a totally different price than if you which I would be fine to do by the way if a if someone came to me and said Mark I really want to just practice building a home I really want to be a general
00:18:34 contractor I want to do this great I will charge you you know probably what I normally would charge you but I'd actually probably add another five to eight% to whatever I'm charging just to teach you all the ins and outs but I tell you what I'll knock it out of the park for you I mean I will do everything in my power to set you up if that's really what the homeowner's goal is but I have never experienced that from a homeowner they want to do that because they want to they think that they saving
00:18:59 money they want to do that because they think they can do it either better than you faster than you or they have a quote a guy you know I've had a number of homeowners over the years that say hey I've got a friend who's a painter I've got a friend who's a cabinet maker and you really have to do your best and this is why I guess as the salesperson or the owner of the companies you've got to you know there's a great quote that says that tact is the art of making a point without making an enemy you know it's
00:19:27 not very easy to tell a client no uh you sort of have to redirect the question the best you can I mean essentially a fancy no and maybe that's just my way of doing it but it's not always easy because at the end of the day they're not going to be happy and you're not going to be happy so you're really it's a contract for failure if you start allowing homeowners to procure their own products it is going to end with disappointment with everybody involved and I I think if you if we were really honest with our clients and said that's
00:19:57 fine you can provide your own your own products but we are going to charge you know you know whatever is a flat rate to expedite or you're going to have to charge them more it's it can't really be about money now I have made plenty of deals over the years um so you know I'm saying that this is a best practice but like any best practice sometimes you might make a decision like it might be okay to suffer we're excited to announce that we've opened up another curious Collective for the last year we've had
00:20:26 the Curious Builder Collective we now have the Curious Builder Collective for designers the first ones will be happening in September all the details are going to be on our website we have 30 spots available half of them have already filled We additionally have eight spots left in the Builder Collective if you're interested in getting together in small groups of nine with local Minneapolis based Builders and designers in separate groups and talking about your business talking about your Brands asking those questions
00:20:52 that you wish you could ask another business owner then this is the place for you details can be found at the Curious builder podcast.com for dri a client right now that they negotiated a deal and they said um it was between me and another remodeler and they said you know what um we don't want to charge you your GC rate on remodeling uh for appliances and so I suggested a a compromise and they accept it and I'm okay with it and they're okay with it and it's kind of a win-win and you know ultimately it would have been one of
00:21:24 those things is like am I going to walk away from the job over that one thing and I told the client I said I'll allow every client to do this on one item um but it can't be can't be five or six otherwise I'm out it's just not a good fit but if that's if that really was that important to them I have to make a decision right there in the moment is this something I'm going to dig my heels in or is this going to be something I'm going to compromise on and um and find a way through and usually you can find a
00:21:50 way through and find Common Ground that's this week's Q&A uh thanks for the question catch you next [Music] week thanks for listen to the curus Builder podcast if you like what you listen to please give us a five-star rating and write us a review it really means a lot it's a great way for us to just understand what you like about the podcast and what we can keep doing so like and review and please share with your friends and family find out more at curious Builder podcast.com [Music]
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